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Post by title1parent on Sept 12, 2008 4:59:14 GMT -5
www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/1158855,6_1_NA12_KNIFE_S1.article Students find out no means no Zero tolerance policies apply regardless of circumstance September 12, 2008Recommend By Tim Waldorf twaldorf@scn1.com A Neuqua Valley High School student found out the hard way this week that pocket knives are prohibited under Indian Prairie School District 204's zero tolerance policy toward weapons. Cindy Hejny said her son, Daniel, a 14-year-old freshman at Neuqua, usually carries a pocket knife. The knife, she said, is "a generic kind of thing that is a lot like a Swiss Army knife, but smaller." The knife blade is 1 3/4 inches long, she said. The rule According to Indian Prairie School District 204's zero tolerance policy toward weapons, "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon on or about the student's person or car or on the school premises or at any school-sponsored activity will be dealt with severely. Consequences for such possession or use will result in suspension, recommendation for expulsion, and referral to the (school resource officer)." Hejny said Daniel, a hockey player, mainly uses the knife to cut the tape for his stick. But while riding the bus to school Tuesday, Daniel decided to take the knife's scissor tool to a wart on his hand. According to Hejny, another student on the bus saw Daniel do this and reported him to the dean's office, which confiscated the knife - a family heirloom that once belonged to Daniel's grandfather - and initially recommended that he be expelled from school for the semester. According to Indian Prairie School District 204's zero tolerance policy toward weapons, "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon ... will be dealt with severely." Consequences will result in suspension or expulsion. District 204 cannot comment on disciplinary actions taken against individual students, but Deputy Superintendent Kathy Birkett defended the district's policy. "Student safety is always our top priority. Weapons of any type do not belong in schools. There may be practical uses for an individual to carry a knife outside of school, but the potential harm to students outweighs any usefulness." While the district initially recommended that Daniel be expelled, it reduced his punishment to a 10-day suspension because Daniel, who has ADD and is dyslexic, has an individual education plan and is therefore considered a special needs student, Hejny said. Still, the Hejny family disagrees with the extent to which Daniel is being disciplined for his mistake, and it has secured a lawyer to fight the district's decision to suspend him. Hejny said the family fears he will return from this suspension only to be told he must attend an alternative high school, and that would amount to being expelled. "Give him a punishment. Yes, by all means," she said. "But don't expel him from school." She said doing so would do Daniel more harm than good because of his educational and emotional needs. "Are we going to sacrifice their education career because the kid made a simple mistake?" Since Tuesday's incident, Hejny said the family has heard a variety of stories about students being expelled because they mistakenly violated a school's zero tolerance policy toward weapons. Students have been kicked out, she said, because they brought such things as rubber band shooters, finger nail files and wallet chains to school. "You don't know how many kids have gone through this because of a stupid mistake," she said. "Parents and kids need to know that this can happen to them."
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Post by momto4 on Sept 12, 2008 7:02:55 GMT -5
Ok - how many of you or your kids would think it's ok to bring a knife to school? I think it's fairly well known that this is against the rules and would be dealt with harshly. I fail to see how having ADD or being dyslexic should have anything to do with the consequences for this infraction.
That being said, he didn't use the knife as a weapon so I agree expulsion sounds too extreme, but this should be the same with or without an IEP.
I heard of an IPSD HS student a few years back after listening to all the rules for a trip out of the country, on the first day bought a knife and an alcoholic beverage to bring home and was sent back home right away at his parents' expense.
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Post by eb204 on Sept 12, 2008 7:41:58 GMT -5
ADD or not and IEP aside, he shouldn't have been carrying it at all. The article stated that he "usually carries a pocketknife" as indicated by his own mother. If he has problems remembering to keep the knife at home, it is up to the parents to make sure the knife stays at home then. It sounds like she knows about this habit of his and allowed him to bring it to school.
I agree he shouldn't be expelled. Maybe in this case, his parents get the punishment. They knew the rules, too, and yet allowed him to bring it on a regular basis. The only difference is that he got caught.
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Arwen
Master Member
Posts: 933
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Post by Arwen on Sept 12, 2008 7:46:43 GMT -5
His parents are idiots IMO. After Paduca, Columbine, and all the rest of the school violence, you have to be an idiot to not realize that NO WEAPON is allowed in school. I've read articles about elementary school children getting more punishment than he got.
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Post by asmodeus on Sept 12, 2008 7:48:38 GMT -5
I'm all for punishment but a 10-day suspension (or expulsion) would seem to be counterproductive. Give him a bunch of community service or make him clean the bathrooms for a month.
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Post by gatormom on Sept 12, 2008 8:17:48 GMT -5
There are no exceptions in zero tolerance. Once you start making exceptions, you open the door and cannot enforce the rules.
I don't think this young man should be expelled but I am not sure the district will have any choice if they want to continue to enforce the rules and keep our schools safe.
I still don't understand how anyone cannot know that any type of knife is not allowed at school. The reminder binders given to our children have those rules in them.
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Post by gatordog on Sept 12, 2008 9:38:11 GMT -5
According to Indian Prairie School District 204's zero tolerance policy toward weapons, "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon on or about the student's person or car or on the school premises or at any school-sponsored activity will be dealt with severely. Consequences for such possession or use will result in suspension, recommendation for expulsion, and referral to the (school resource officer)." To me, a 1-3/4" pocket knife does not necessarly construe a weapon. In this case, clearly the student was not using it in a way that shows it was to be a weapon. He wasnt hiding it, he wasnt referencing it in a threatening way. OK, zero tolarance says suspension, recommendation for expulsion, refereal to school resource officer. So those are the rules. I think administration should give him some nominal suspension (day or two), consider the recommendation for explusion and then decline that, and let the young man talk with the resource officer as he returns to school, to reinforce the lesson learned. EDIT: I re-read the article.... the given 10-day suspension is absurd
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Post by momto4 on Sept 12, 2008 10:11:12 GMT -5
A few years back a kid got in trouble for eating his breakfast on the Granger bus - not due to the food (which I think also isn't allowed) but because he was using a fork and knife.
I agree there needs to be some degree of reasonableness but I also think the kids know very well that no knives of any kind are allowed at school or on the bus.
Yet, we know that not all rules are equally enforced. My kids follow the dress code but apparently many others do not and nothing is done. When I was in school, if we were not following the dress code we were given some clothing to cover up or sent home to change. Most HS kids now are carrying cell phones and most teachers from what I hear are not confiscating them if they are out in the open. At least not last year, I don't know if things have changed this year.
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Post by sardines on Sept 12, 2008 10:44:55 GMT -5
According to Indian Prairie School District 204's zero tolerance policy toward weapons, "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon on or about the student's person or car or on the school premises or at any school-sponsored activity will be dealt with severely. Consequences for such possession or use will result in suspension, recommendation for expulsion, and referral to the (school resource officer)." To me, a 1-3/4" pocket knife does not necessarly construe a weapon. In this case, clearly the student was not using it in a way that shows it was to be a weapon. He wasnt hiding it, he wasnt referencing it in a threatening way. OK, zero tolarance says suspension, recommendation for expulsion, refereal to school resource officer. So those are the rules. I think administration should give him some nominal suspension (day or two), consider the recommendation for explusion and then decline that, and let the young man talk with the resource officer as he returns to school, to reinforce the lesson learned. EDIT: I re-read the article.... the given 10-day suspension is absurdI agree that the punishment seems harsh for what appears to have been very poor judgement and most likely(at least at THAT moment) innocent intentions . Hopefully they will reconsider the 10 day suspension. Especially if it really is the only "mark" on his record... I also find it hard to believe, however, how anyone could think it is okay to carry a pocket knife to school. This stuff is drummed into the kids and is included in all of the handbooks and literature sent home at an early age. A Freshman in high school(and more importantly the parents) really should have known the distinction. I also don't think Dyslexia or ADD are valid "excuses". I do consider a pocket knife to be a potential weapon regardless of how it was being used at the time. Box cutters only have 1/4 to 1/2" blade and they certainly proved to be fatal.
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Post by majorianthrax on Sept 12, 2008 11:28:09 GMT -5
How things have changed. When I was in school we all carried Boy Scout jackknives in our back pockets. No one thought of using them as a weapon. Nowadays with our kids being bombarded with drugs, sex and violence they always have to be on their guard with anyone. And weapons aren't the only deadly things around. I have to support the school on this. Having ADD kids myself I know this is no excuse regardless of what his parents say. I may get ripped of this but I believe there should be tighter rules and control at the HS level.
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Post by gatordog on Sept 12, 2008 12:28:27 GMT -5
Preventing violence, keeping kids safe at school is a big function of our school admin. As a parent, in descending order, here is how I rank my concerns:
First: Students involved in fight. Their actions show they have chosen violence. Special concentration on repeat offenders.
Second: Students involved in bullying. Their actions show they have threatened violence. (certainly, this is harder to "prove", but if staff is doing their job, they can figure out whats happening..)
Way distant third: A student bringing a small pocketknife to school (that admittedly could theoretically be used as something to act on or threaten violence).
I know kids get suspended for fights. But is it 10 day for the first fight?! I think the scale of this suspension is unreasonable.
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Post by forthekids on Sept 12, 2008 13:03:43 GMT -5
A few years ago, at NVHS, a student brought a water gun as a prop to show during a speech about school security (or lack thereof). He was trying to show that he carried this in his backpack and nobody knew. "What if this had been a real gun?" was the point of his speech. He even told the teacher that he was going to display something during this speech that might upset some people but he was trying to make a point. The end result -- he was suspended for a whole semester (I think, could have been more).
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Post by momto4 on Sept 22, 2008 14:29:02 GMT -5
www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/west/1162413,6_4_NA14_WESTCOLUMN_S1.article Black and white policies tough in a world with shades of gray September 14, 2008 Whenever I read that a high school student has been suspended or expelled for some misdeed, I wonder whether that really makes sense. Oh sure, if a kid is going to be a danger to teachers or other students, he or she should be kicked out of school in order to protect others. But if the child has done something that's a violation of school code and is not some sort of serial troublemaker, it would seem to me that nothing is gained by a suspension or expulsion. I thought of this as I read the story about the Neuqua Valley High School student who was suspended for 10 days after he was caught with a pocket knife. He had used the scissors on the Swiss Army style knife to cut off a wart and another student saw him and turned him in. The kid with the pocket knife was in violation of the so-called "zero tolerance policy" District 204 has concerning the carrying of a weapon. The student has attention deficit disorder and is dyslexic. Because of this he is considered a special needs student, which is why the district reduced his punishment from expulsion, which district officials had recommended, to a 10-day suspension. His mother said he usually carries the pocket knife and uses it to cut the tape for his hockey stick. The school has a policy that states "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon ... will be dealt with severely." It then states that the consequences for possession or use will be suspension, expulsion and referral to the school resource officer. I would think that the school's policy would be more reasonable if it included something less than suspension, depending on the circumstances. Besides, it seems to do a lot more good to keep kids in school and punish them in some more appropriate manner - keep them after school and make them study, for instance, or give them extra homework. Sure, the kid shouldn't have had the knife with him, even as small as it is, and the school needs to do something about this, but, again, suspension for 10 days seems a stretch. Zero tolerance may be an easy way to treat everybody the same, but everybody isn't the same. The kid's parents have done pretty much what everyone whose child gets in trouble these days does - hire a lawyer to fight the district. Usually, I'm not too sympathetic to parents fighting school discipline with a lawyer, but this is a different kind of case. The boy's mom says the family fears that after he returns from the suspension, the district will tell him he must attend an alternative high school. That would just be piling on, unless there is some good reason outside the knife incident to put him in a different school. Zero tolerance is a black and white policy. The problem is that the world is made up of shades of gray. Contact Tim West at west@scn1.com or 630-416-5290. Read his blog, All Points West, at napersun.com.
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Post by sardines on Sept 22, 2008 14:57:31 GMT -5
www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/west/1162413,6_4_NA14_WESTCOLUMN_S1.article Black and white policies tough in a world with shades of gray September 14, 2008 Whenever I read that a high school student has been suspended or expelled for some misdeed, I wonder whether that really makes sense. Oh sure, if a kid is going to be a danger to teachers or other students, he or she should be kicked out of school in order to protect others. But if the child has done something that's a violation of school code and is not some sort of serial troublemaker, it would seem to me that nothing is gained by a suspension or expulsion. I thought of this as I read the story about the Neuqua Valley High School student who was suspended for 10 days after he was caught with a pocket knife. He had used the scissors on the Swiss Army style knife to cut off a wart and another student saw him and turned him in. The kid with the pocket knife was in violation of the so-called "zero tolerance policy" District 204 has concerning the carrying of a weapon. The student has attention deficit disorder and is dyslexic. Because of this he is considered a special needs student, which is why the district reduced his punishment from expulsion, which district officials had recommended, to a 10-day suspension. His mother said he usually carries the pocket knife and uses it to cut the tape for his hockey stick. The school has a policy that states "possession or use of a weapon or other object that may reasonably be considered to be a weapon ... will be dealt with severely." It then states that the consequences for possession or use will be suspension, expulsion and referral to the school resource officer. I would think that the school's policy would be more reasonable if it included something less than suspension, depending on the circumstances. Besides, it seems to do a lot more good to keep kids in school and punish them in some more appropriate manner - keep them after school and make them study, for instance, or give them extra homework. Sure, the kid shouldn't have had the knife with him, even as small as it is, and the school needs to do something about this, but, again, suspension for 10 days seems a stretch. Zero tolerance may be an easy way to treat everybody the same, but everybody isn't the same. The kid's parents have done pretty much what everyone whose child gets in trouble these days does - hire a lawyer to fight the district. Usually, I'm not too sympathetic to parents fighting school discipline with a lawyer, but this is a different kind of case. The boy's mom says the family fears that after he returns from the suspension, the district will tell him he must attend an alternative high school. That would just be piling on, unless there is some good reason outside the knife incident to put him in a different school. Zero tolerance is a black and white policy. The problem is that the world is made up of shades of gray. Contact Tim West at west@scn1.com or 630-416-5290. Read his blog, All Points West, at napersun.com. What part of zero tolerance do the parents and student not understand? There is absolutely no reason to carry a knife to school. Period. He's not using his hockey stick at school unless NV has an ice rink that the rest of us don't know about. My kid used to tear the tape with his teeth...like everybody else . I have several friends with kids at NV and not one of them was upset that they enforced the zero tolerance policy. Moreover, the only people that know the complete background history of this kid are his parents and the school staff. Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye. I'm gonna have to side with the school staff as they are enforcing a stated policy...one that the student and his parents chose to ignore.
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Post by asmodeus on Sept 22, 2008 15:07:12 GMT -5
Wouldn't a presumably legal pair of scissors be just as effective a weapon as this little knife?
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