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Post by gatormom on Feb 10, 2009 11:07:00 GMT -5
I'm sure the policy as it exists is, indeed, legal. However, that shouldn't preclude the board or administration from taking another look and adopting policies that further delve into an incident such as this. Had this incident never happended, we would have no immediate reason to look at the policies. But it did happen and we now find ourselves scrambling for something that can address this and we have nothing. I was talking about any new policies being legal. Certainly what is in place is legal but removing the two boys from school before they are found guilty of anything might just be violating their rights. The victim has suffered enough and continues to suffer. I just wonder if any effective policy to address these types of situations is possible.
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Arwen
Master Member
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Post by Arwen on Feb 10, 2009 12:32:08 GMT -5
I give credit to the victim's parents for fighting this. If it were my kid, I don't know that I would be brave enough to fight the SB/Admin policies so publicly. The SB/Admin's refusing to talk to them has really victimized this child all over again. Because they had to go to a public meeting and also garnered support through emails and online posting, I would bet that almost everyone in the Gregory community now knows who this victim is and at least the bare bones of what happened to him. That's really tough, especially in the middle school years. The parents fight will make it better for the next child subject to an assault and I applaud them for that, but I think I would have made the choice to pull my kid out of the 204 schools.
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Post by gatordog on Feb 10, 2009 13:00:58 GMT -5
.... Bradshaw's proposal states: "Regardless of the location of conduct, a student who has been charged, convicted, or pleaded guilty in a court of law to a violent felony against another student in their school shall be reassigned to another school within the district or placed in an alternative education program for a period of three years." I support this policy. I think the accused should be moved to another school or alternative program, pending the outcome of the serious charges before the court. I do not see how any rights of the accused are being jeopardized. They have a right to a free public education. They will be getting that....just at another school or alternative education. I think some combination of police, counselors, and educators could reasonably judge whether or not these students would pose a grave risk if they were placed at another regular school. This group could I think fairly judge whether or not more extreme alternative education was warranted. (I think that is a better way to handle it than parents saying....but I dont want these kids at my childrens school. We dont know all the facts. The police and counselors do.) I very much like the proposal by CB.
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Post by asmodeus on Feb 10, 2009 13:14:22 GMT -5
I think there are ramifications to this though. Let's say a girl accuses a fellow student of sexual assualt or rape, and that it was not true (perhaps she was being bullied by the kid and figured she would get back at him by fabricating a story).
Under your proposal, the accused kid is shipped to another school pending a trial. At the trial, it comes out that he was innocent and she made it up. I take it he would be allowed back at the original school. But what about the girl? Should she be kicked out or moved?
Does it depend on how much initial evidence there is? In the case at Gregory, unless there was physical evidence, it will come down to two peoples' testimony vs. one. I'm still not clear on how "everyone" knows the details of the crime, unless the victim and /or his parents have been going around telling everyone.
What a mess...
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Arwen
Master Member
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Post by Arwen on Feb 10, 2009 13:40:04 GMT -5
I'm still not clear on how "everyone" knows the details of the crime, unless the victim and /or his parents have been going around telling everyone. What a mess... In the case of an 11 or 12 year old child, I think anyone knowing that he is the victim of sexaul assault is traumatic. No details need to be known for that child (particularly a boy) IMO to be subject to crass jokes and name calling that cause further distress. I agree - it is a mess.
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Post by sportsmom on Feb 10, 2009 13:43:32 GMT -5
I think there are ramifications to this though. Let's say a girl accuses a fellow student of sexual assualt or rape, and that it was not true (perhaps she was being bullied by the kid and figured she would get back at him by fabricating a story). Under your proposal, the accused kid is shipped to another school pending a trial. At the trial, it comes out that he was innocent and she made it up. I take it he would be allowed back at the original school. But what about the girl? Should she be kicked out or moved? Does it depend on how much initial evidence there is? In the case at Gregory, unless there was physical evidence, it will come down to two peoples' testimony vs. one. I'm still not clear on how "everyone" knows the details of the crime, unless the victim and /or his parents have been going around telling everyone. What a mess... I think the key is that charges have been filed, not merely accused. If someone falsely brings charges against another, that is definately harrassment and the "girl" should be dealt with accordingly. I certainly don't agree the assailants should be moved to another 204 school??? You've go to be kidding! I don't want them at Still/Fischer. They should basically be expelled from 204 and sent to an alternative school. I would bet $100 it is the assailants that are telling the story. The parents may be as well to drum up much needed support for their son. Wonder if there were cell phone pictures involved? There's probably a lot we don't know.
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Post by asmodeus on Feb 10, 2009 13:57:23 GMT -5
I agree, but it seems that most of the details have become public knowledge, at least in the immediate school community. For example, these quotes were posted in this forum:
The only way I can read this is that the attacker bragged about the attack to this person's niece.
Or this quote from the victim's father:
Again, how do they know the details unless the attackers or the victim (or his friends/family), or the police, have been spreading it? Did the father feel compelled to give details because he felt the school/district was unresponsive? I'm just curious how these details came out. And I'm also curious how the accused are being treated by their peers? Have they been found guilty in the court of public opinion and are now outcasts or are they viewed by other students as innocent pranksters, etc.? Conversely, are fellow students showing sympathy toward the victim or do some not believe his accusations?
I'm trying to see all aspects of this.
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Post by wvhsparent on Feb 10, 2009 14:01:10 GMT -5
I don't understand why these kids are even free. Yes, they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but when someone commits a robbery or rape, they are jailed or detained until bail is posted. Is it because they are juveniles that the same rules don't apply? Who said bail was not posted? But yes, Bail procedures on Juveniles are different.
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Post by asmodeus on Feb 10, 2009 15:34:23 GMT -5
I guess I assumed that it hadn't because it wasn't reported (in the stories I've read). If it was posted, I would think that means there was enough preliminary evidence to warrant arrest and indictment. If that is the case, I agree the kids should be moved. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, as their innocence remains a possibility and the students of the school they would be moved to wouldn't be thrilled, but it would be the best option.
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Post by WeNeed3 on Feb 10, 2009 20:23:27 GMT -5
Well, I was googling today and found this. Very interesting reading. It won't let me cut and paste so hopefully this link will work. www.nwlc.org/pdf/Final%20SH%20Fact%20Sheet-Schools.pdfETA: While it does talk at length about in-school harrassment, it does make a comment that the harrassment does not have to occur in-school to be prohibited.
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Post by justvote on Feb 10, 2009 21:48:44 GMT -5
I'm still not clear on how "everyone" knows the details of the crime, unless the victim and /or his parents have been going around telling everyone. What a mess... The victim has an 8th grade brother who may talking, as well. Many parents also felt compelled to discuss this with their son/daughter after it hit the papers. The parents began discussing it openly after they received absolutely no support from the district.
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Post by steckdad on Feb 10, 2009 21:50:09 GMT -5
I'm sure the policy as it exists is, indeed, legal. However, that shouldn't preclude the board or administration from taking another look and adopting policies that further delve into an incident such as this. Had this incident never happended, we would have no immediate reason to look at the policies. But it did happen and we now find ourselves scrambling for something that can address this and we have nothing. I was talking about any new policies being legal. Certainly what is in place is legal but removing the two boys from school before they are found guilty of anything might just be violating their rights. The victim has suffered enough and continues to suffer. I just wonder if any effective policy to address these types of situations is possible. I heard other people say that 203 has a policy to address this and 204 does not. But I could find nothing that specifically mentions being charged of a crime outside school walls....
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