doc
Frosh
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Post by doc on Mar 22, 2011 10:20:20 GMT -5
I realize this may be viewed critically , but I sincerely do ask that some here at least think about this before entering the polls- as putting any differences aside on what are now minor issues, or any personal issues or other water under the bridge..please be informed before you vote for the next SB candidates again. FACT: The district now spends 7% of it's revenues on operating the schools -- and 12% of the revenues on debt. this was confirmed by Dave Holm at Monday's SB meeting- even though M2 tried to discredit the candidate that raised the issue. FACT: some of your SB leaders are trying to convince people that assessed values do not mean anything related to taxes. Well we are staring tax increases ( larger ones startng 2014) in the face as all of our homes have devalued. No it is not the SB's fault the homes have devalued, but it is their fault that we are $290M in debt today and facing strong tax increases to go along with that devaluation here is an article from Plainfield that talks about 204's upcoming 2.7% increase. plainfield.patch.com/articles/lower-property-values-dont-always-mean-lower-tax-billsFACT: the final numbers on MVHS have finally been released ( not to the public however) after many FOIA actions.. we spent $143,217,528 off of a referendum of $124.66M regardless of what side you take on the need for this school- one can't argue they overstated the HS population by 1400-1500 students and knew that before construction started. And much like some of us were told " can't they read the referendum did not state where the school was to be built" - it also did not read that they were allowed to spend $18.6M over and above the referendum either- financing debt out much further in the future did it ? Are these the people you want handling your tax dollars, are they the people you trust to get the truth from ? regardless of what 'side' you were on with the decisions that were made, remember you can end up on the other side of the next round just as easily..and you will be told no more of the truth than anyone was this time around. There are a lot of good people here too, please take some time to think about these items ( and so many more ) as they affect every 204 resident, for a long time to come. At the very least hold your SB members accountable to acknowledge these concernsand address them openly and honestly. thanks for listening
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 22, 2011 21:36:36 GMT -5
Doc, by the tone of your post it is apparent that getting folks to even show up to vote can be frustrating.
On a different note it would be nice to know what kind of debt load other districts similar to ours have incurred. Realistically moving forward "The 800 pound gorilla" is the cost of labor and benefits incurred district and statewide.
Tax increases will be a fact of life for many reasons ( not least of which is government agencies uncontrolled spending) including lower real estate property values with fixed and variable costs climbing in district. For many years our tax rate actually decreased because of the false appreciation at the residential level. At present we are all experiencing a more realistic valuation of our residences thus also experiencing the real rate of taxation. One can only expect the tax rate to increase over the mid term as it could take a decade or more to decrease the final piece in the puzzle.... WAGES & BENEFITS.
One only has to look at the great state of Wisconsin to see what happens when a governor pushes a bit too hard with regard to wages, benefits and collective bargaining.
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Post by wvhsparent on Mar 24, 2011 9:27:12 GMT -5
Doc, by the tone of your post it is apparent that getting folks to even show up to vote can be frustrating. On a different note it would be nice to know what kind of debt load other districts similar to ours have incurred. Realistically moving forward "The 800 pound gorilla" is the cost of labor and benefits incurred district and statewide. Tax increases will be a fact of life for many reasons ( not least of which is government agencies uncontrolled spending) including lower real estate property values with fixed and variable costs climbing in district. For many years our tax rate actually decreased because of the false appreciation at the residential level. At present we are all experiencing a more realistic valuation of our residences thus also experiencing the real rate of taxation. One can only expect the tax rate to increase over the mid term as it could take a decade or more to decrease the final piece in the puzzle.... WAGES & BENEFITS. One only has to look at the great state of Wisconsin to see what happens when a governor pushes a bit too hard with regard to wages, benefits and collective bargaining. Yes Thanks doc......can you provide comparisons? two similar Districts nearby such as 203, Plainfield and Oswego would be good.
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doc
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Post by doc on Mar 24, 2011 12:49:53 GMT -5
Doc, by the tone of your post it is apparent that getting folks to even show up to vote can be frustrating. On a different note it would be nice to know what kind of debt load other districts similar to ours have incurred. Realistically moving forward "The 800 pound gorilla" is the cost of labor and benefits incurred district and statewide. Tax increases will be a fact of life for many reasons ( not least of which is government agencies uncontrolled spending) including lower real estate property values with fixed and variable costs climbing in district. For many years our tax rate actually decreased because of the false appreciation at the residential level. At present we are all experiencing a more realistic valuation of our residences thus also experiencing the real rate of taxation. One can only expect the tax rate to increase over the mid term as it could take a decade or more to decrease the final piece in the puzzle.... WAGES & BENEFITS. One only has to look at the great state of Wisconsin to see what happens when a governor pushes a bit too hard with regard to wages, benefits and collective bargaining. Yes Thanks doc......can you provide comparisons? two similar Districts nearby such as 203, Plainfield and Oswego would be good. may take a bit but I will see what I can dredge up re: $ spent on operations and $ spent on debt - I think I can get for one of those districts thru a contact. It would likely take FOIA requests for the others just as it did here, no one here offered this information voluntarily either. The concern should still be there over the facts of where our money is going. I am glad no one is arguing with the other points I made though -they are facts and to me real issues with the way this district has handled those situations - and the price we now pay. And SSSM - yes I saw what happened in Wisconsin, but it's amazing this raised not a single eyebrow when this happened virtually acroiss the board in the private sector- and we all lost our pensions for cash plans --why ? taxpayers weren't on the hook for those- that's why. Gonna be tough finding support for private sector workers to pay for underfunded - actuarially unsound pension plans while they lost their own and no unions were marching for us. Do I feel bad for them if it happens- yes ( but I'm not convinced it will) Oh and yes it is frustrating that people are so disinterested in something that costs them $7k-$`15K a year...
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 26, 2011 15:51:29 GMT -5
Doc, I can understand your disappointment and even anger when the private sector wiped out many of the established "defined pension plans". There were tens of thousands if not millions affected by these actions. On the other hand the criticism regrading public sector plans especially those in "near bankrupt states" like our state are an especially complex issue.
The combination of underfunding (state level), below market rate of return (for about a decade), a mature workforce retiring in mass, longer life expectancies of pensioners, and relatively young retirement ages, have all contributed to the dilemma we are now facing.
The attitude needed to work through this problem will probably include: raising pension retirement ages, reduced benefits, and increased contributions for both employee and tax payers.
The days of finger pointing and accusations will do nothing to solve this issue. All affected parties are going to have to negotiate in ernest to right size these pension funds.
Doc, it is best not to take things too personally when trying to find reason to others indifference. Folks are going to go about their own agenda without giving a second thought to how others feel. I have found it most important to look after my own predicament and then worry about the worlds issues, these same issues that will be with us 'till the end of time.
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doc
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Post by doc on Mar 28, 2011 13:14:54 GMT -5
Doc, I can understand your disappointment and even anger when the private sector wiped out many of the established "defined pension plans". There were tens of thousands if not millions affected by these actions. On the other hand the criticism regrading public sector plans especially those in "near bankrupt states" like our state are an especially complex issue. The combination of underfunding (state level), below market rate of return (for about a decade), a mature workforce retiring in mass, longer life expectancies of pensioners, and relatively young retirement ages, have all contributed to the dilemma we are now facing. The attitude needed to work through this problem will probably include: raising pension retirement ages, reduced benefits, and increased contributions for both employee and tax payers. The days of finger pointing and accusations will do nothing to solve this issue. All affected parties are going to have to negotiate in ernest to right size these pension funds. Doc, it is best not to take things too personally when trying to find reason to others indifference. Folks are going to go about their own agenda without giving a second thought to how others feel. I have found it most important to look after my own predicament and then worry about the worlds issues, these same issues that will be with us 'till the end of time. "The attitude needed to work through this problem will probably include: raising pension retirement ages, reduced benefits, and increased contributions for both employee and tax payers" agreed on all counts except the last one. While it is likely true- someone is going to have to show me where all the past money has gone before and what they are going to do to stop waste today before I give them more to play with without complaining. The answer is not to throw money at it - not as step 1
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 28, 2011 20:29:01 GMT -5
Doc,
I can remember when my blood pressure would go through the roof regarding taxes. What you do not seem to realize is that no one cares here in the "land of milk and honey". Taxes in this district are like rising gas prices, at first there is grumbling but soon enough folks are back to their wasteful ways.
Doc you must realize that most folks could care less about fixed costs going up, just as long as the pay check will cover the bills. Just ask any of your neighbors how often they work on a personal net worth statement.
Now Doc both of us are getting on in years, isn't it time to take it easy and let someone else start worrying.
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Post by steckdad on Mar 29, 2011 10:59:30 GMT -5
Doc, I can remember when my blood pressure would go through the roof regarding taxes. What you do not seem to realize is that no one cares here in the "land of milk and honey". Taxes in this district are like rising gas prices, at first there is grumbling but soon enough folks are back to their wasteful ways. Doc you must realize that most folks could care less about fixed costs going up, just as long as the pay check will cover the bills. Just ask any of your neighbors how often they work on a personal net worth statement. Now Doc both of us are getting on in years, isn't it time to take it easy and let someone else start worrying. It's not that you don't look at your tax bill and get upset....of course we would all like to pay less taxes...Most understand that your only recourse is to move somewhere with lower taxes. gnashing of teeth and hand ringing gets you nowhere...kind of like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer because you have a headache.....
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Post by gatordog on Mar 29, 2011 14:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by gatordog on Mar 29, 2011 16:08:08 GMT -5
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doc
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Post by doc on Mar 29, 2011 18:23:44 GMT -5
OK- let's talk apples and apples here and deliver these questions back to the incumbents.. Ask them to explain the graph from the newsletter ( second page). Our OEPP has gone up 4% since the beginning of the year from $9,698 to $10,020. Let’s compare us to the DuPage average and not throw in Barrington as they do to get the 26% average “we spend less than our peers”. We’re only operating at 11% lower than the State Average, 15% lower than the DuPage average and 11% lower than Naperville D203. Plainfield which is a district closer to our size is operating at $10,165 which we are only 2.5% lower than. apparently spending a lower operating expense per pupil doesn’t transfer well as I was told we have the lowest attendance rate of any of those other districts, we have the second lowest ACT scores of those schools and the second lowest ISAT scores.. I haven't had time to check it out but it comes from a good source On second thought maybe we should spend more in Operating Expense Per Pupil!!!! Just because everyone else is doing it also doesn't make it right. Just because taking those high return bonds out before we had a commitment was legal also didn't make it right. No difference when talking about raises, benefits and pensions in school districts either. It has to start/end somewhere. In 2007, the top 100 administrators at that time in this state using a 20 year life expectancy costs us ALL in this state over $800m. This is unsustainable!
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doc
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Post by doc on Mar 29, 2011 18:28:12 GMT -5
Doc, I can remember when my blood pressure would go through the roof regarding taxes. What you do not seem to realize is that no one cares here in the "land of milk and honey". Taxes in this district are like rising gas prices, at first there is grumbling but soon enough folks are back to their wasteful ways. Doc you must realize that most folks could care less about fixed costs going up, just as long as the pay check will cover the bills. Just ask any of your neighbors how often they work on a personal net worth statement. Now Doc both of us are getting on in years, isn't it time to take it easy and let someone else start worrying. SSSM - you are absolutely right of course but the BS that has been pulled in this district sticks in my craw...it's been done under the table ( besides claims of transparency) - > no one would know what MVHS cost if not for peoiple FOIA documents on the $10M in bond costs > the way land was secured without appraisals and for what cost ? > Super releases statement to papers on BB costs and conveniently leaves out $2.6M already put on the side > meetings with neighborhoods over boundaries and so many more already well documents on these sites - I will call it out until the day I leave this district -- and hopefully other candidates will continue to do the same
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doc
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Post by doc on Mar 29, 2011 18:35:57 GMT -5
Doc, I can remember when my blood pressure would go through the roof regarding taxes. What you do not seem to realize is that no one cares here in the "land of milk and honey". Taxes in this district are like rising gas prices, at first there is grumbling but soon enough folks are back to their wasteful ways. Doc you must realize that most folks could care less about fixed costs going up, just as long as the pay check will cover the bills. Just ask any of your neighbors how often they work on a personal net worth statement. Now Doc both of us are getting on in years, isn't it time to take it easy and let someone else start worrying. It's not that you don't look at your tax bill and get upset....of course we would all like to pay less taxes...Most understand that your only recourse is to move somewhere with lower taxes. gnashing of teeth and hand ringing gets you nowhere...kind of like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer because you have a headache..... what gives me a headache is people who quote no one can make a difference - and continue to hand over more and more money to the same people who pissed away everything they had- and more. THAT gives me a headache.. are we all sheeple, or do we have minds of our own?
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Post by gatordog on Mar 30, 2011 9:14:15 GMT -5
..... apparently spending a lower operating expense per pupil doesn’t transfer well as I was told we have the lowest attendance rate of any of those other districts, we have the second lowest ACT scores of those schools and the second lowest ISAT scores.. I haven't had time to check it out but it comes from a good source .... Well, I did check it out, despite the fact that it comes from a "good source". First, you can see all School or District report card data at webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/getSearchCriteria.aspx That is how I could pretty easily check out the above statement. I chose to look at the ACT statement. 204 is not the "second ACT lowest scores". This is factually incorrect. I dont know if you are talking Dupage only, or neighboring schools. Either way, its not true. Here is SD data, town & district no. with avg ACT scores Hinsdale/Darien 80 - 25.2 Naperville 203 -25.0 Wheaton/Warr 200 - 24.4 Geneva 304 - 24.2 IP 204- 23.9 St Charles 303-23.6 Lisle 202 - 22.0 Downers Gr 99 - 23.2 Westmont 201 - 21.4 Glenbard 87- 21.9 Bartlett (Bartlet HS only, not U46)-21.3 West Chicago -20.6 Oswego 308- 20.6 Plainfield 202 - 20.6 Batavia 101- 22.9
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Post by gatordog on Mar 31, 2011 7:59:11 GMT -5
Just to be clear (and to get into semantics....ugh ). I have not read the newsletter mentioned that had a list of various SDs. I dont know where 204 "ranks exactly" on a list (that I havent seen). I will say this: one can make a statement that "204 is the second from the bottom' on some list. Or, one can present the real data like I did. I hope the latter method is more informative in the end!
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