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Post by sardines on Jun 3, 2008 9:26:25 GMT -5
Welcome Dr. Who. I don't think EB204 is jumping up and down about the commute nor is the Gombert community happy with the boundaries. Some of us feel that building Metea is more important than what we would prefer. To me, opening the boundaries up again puts our community and more importantly our children back into that uncertainty. We so need to move on. I can just hear the conversation with my daughter, "oh they are changing boundaries again, don't know where you will end up but they should know in the next couple of months or so. That should give you a week before high school starts to prepare." [glow=red,2,300]Thank you for the welcome, and now that MV is a done deal, why not make it work as best it can ?[/glow] I respect your opinion, but will agree to disagree. I admit it would be hard on kids who might change again and I don't like that either, but it is also hard on the kids who will have to live the commute for 4 years also- many families having to do so multiple times. Moving on for my community equates to - 'take another one for the team at best, or sit down and shut up at worst...I find neither acceptable if there is a better plan. We already attend a MS far from our area - the 3rd closest, I think that should be acceptable for our taking one for the team -- again, my opinion which I believe I am entitled to. Doctorwho, I'm with you. I think there was definitely alot of "takin one for the team" goin on but I am looking forward to making it work as best it can. I also look forward to making MV as good as WV ( a difficult task IMO). I may have kids at both which I actually think will be beneficial in regards to ideas, not reinventing the wheel, etc.....
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 9:36:50 GMT -5
Let's keep the driving distances out..they have been gone over more times than I care mention. They are longer than before, and it sucks. This from a parent who had to do it for 8 years with 2 kids already. that's all I'm looking for is that statement - there are some who do not believe that. I know where you drove from, so you have the experience we have now been handed. It is wrong after we add a 3rd HS... thank you for being staightforward on this. Tied to that longer commute overall is more expense- for all of us.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 9:41:30 GMT -5
I respect your opinion Dr. Who but I go back to, once you open the door to Watts, where does it stop? I just don't see how there can be any changes in boundaries now without causing a great deal more anger, more bitterness and division in this district. I know that there are many reasons that many areas wish different boundaries. I just think to open the door even a crack would be the wrong thing at this point. I am sorry for that, for Watts and for others. I just don't see how any exceptions can be made now without creating bigger problems. However that would be saying big problems do not exist already today because of the boundaries - and they do. Trying to fix them and repair this community cannot start by leaving everything status quo, IMHO. We'll agree to disagree
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Post by eb204 on Jun 3, 2008 9:44:34 GMT -5
Welcome Dr. Who. I don't think EB204 is jumping up and down about the commute nor is the Gombert community happy with the boundaries. Some of us feel that building Metea is more important than what we would prefer. To me, opening the boundaries up again puts our community and more importantly our children back into that uncertainty. We so need to move on. I can just hear the conversation with my daughter, "oh they are changing boundaries again, don't know where you will end up but they should know in the next couple of months or so. That should give you a week before high school starts to prepare." Thank you for the welcome, and now that MV is a done deal, why not make it work as best it can ? I respect your opinion, but will agree to disagree. I admit it would be hard on kids who might change again and I don't like that either, but it is also hard on the kids who will have to live the commute for 4 years also- many families having to do so multiple times. Moving on for my community equates to - 'take another one for the team at best, or sit down and shut up at worst...I find neither acceptable if there is a better plan. We already attend a MS far from our area - the 3rd closest, I think that should be acceptable for our taking one for the team -- again, my opinion which I believe I am entitled to. That's what many of us are doing.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 10:00:44 GMT -5
Thank you for the welcome, and now that MV is a done deal, why not make it work as best it can ? I respect your opinion, but will agree to disagree. I admit it would be hard on kids who might change again and I don't like that either, but it is also hard on the kids who will have to live the commute for 4 years also- many families having to do so multiple times. Moving on for my community equates to - 'take another one for the team at best, or sit down and shut up at worst...I find neither acceptable if there is a better plan. We already attend a MS far from our area - the 3rd closest, I think that should be acceptable for our taking one for the team -- again, my opinion which I believe I am entitled to. That's what many of us are doing. and at this point it is what it is as far as where the HS is going, so why not make it the best it can be for ALL of 204 ?
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Post by eb204 on Jun 3, 2008 10:54:16 GMT -5
That's what many of us are doing. and at this point it is what it is as far as where the HS is going, so why not make it the best it can be for ALL of 204 ? Again, that's what many in this district ARE doing. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed on thes boards do not represent the entire district. There are others who do not frequent the boards but have expressed that they have moved on -whether they want to or not. It is best for the district to move on. Difficult task, I realize, but not impossible for most people, given a little effort and some willingness to let go of some of the hurt they feel.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 11:01:31 GMT -5
and at this point it is what it is as far as where the HS is going, so why not make it the best it can be for ALL of 204 ? Again, that's what many in this district ARE doing. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed on thes boards do not represent the entire district. There are others who do not frequent the boards but have expressed that they have moved on -whether they want to or not. It is best for the district to move on. Difficult task, I realize, but not impossible for most people, given a little effort and some willingness to let go of some of the hurt they feel. Moving on while things can be better IMHO will not in the long run achieve the healing people are seeking. Just as continued poor communication from our SB will not accomplish that either - just because they got away with it up to now and things have progressed does notmake it right in my book. Also keep in mind there are those who don't post who are also upset - not just people who are moving on. I know 2 in my area who are making their concern visible by selling their homes and leaving. Neither have ever posted once -- asking people to just suck it up and move on - does nothing to heal the rift that has been created. I suggest that those who say they have moved on, the next time another decision doesn't go their way, will be right back where they started - I know many like that. It is not easy to move one when you believe you've been screwed over - and those who did it won't even acknowledge you. Also there is a certain segment who do not want to look at any changes because they have exactly what they want, and are fearful that might change - no oneis telling them to suck it up for what might be right for the district as a whole. I am not saying you are in that camp because I don't believe you are - but let's acknowledge that exists also. Again, it's my ( and many others I know) opinion. If you believe it's the wrong stance that's fine and you are entitled to that opinion, but don't make the mistake of believing others can wish our opinion away - it won't happen. And in the long run that will do nothing to close the divide.
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sushi
Master Member
Posts: 767
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Post by sushi on Jun 3, 2008 11:03:49 GMT -5
I am not going to discuss the merit of what changes should or should not be made but have a concern. So we open the can of worms and change Watts, why not other areas? There are a lot of areas that would have preferred a different high school assignment for a lot of different reasons and once you start making these exceptions, it could get ugly. Our district handles these boundary things so well, sarcasm intended. I agree. There is absolutely NO perfect solution. Therein lies the problem. Make one area happy and the other is ticked. I think it will be a platform for some of those looking to run for the SB and predict it will be another fiasco. We just can't go there again, IMO. SNM - I never voted for CV, never liked her, still don't. Can't wait to vote for her replacement.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 3, 2008 11:16:22 GMT -5
Again, that's what many in this district ARE doing. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed on thes boards do not represent the entire district. There are others who do not frequent the boards but have expressed that they have moved on -whether they want to or not. It is best for the district to move on. Difficult task, I realize, but not impossible for most people, given a little effort and some willingness to let go of some of the hurt they feel. Moving on while things can be better IMHO will not in the long run achieve the healing people are seeking. Just as continued poor communication from our SB will not accomplish that either - just because they got away with it up to now and things have progressed does notmake it right in my book. Also keep in mind there are those who don't post who are also upset - not just people who are moving on. I know 2 in my area who are making their concern visible by selling their homes and leaving. Neither have ever posted once -- asking people to just suck it up and move on - does nothing to heal the rift that has been created. I suggest that those who say they have moved on, the next time another decision doesn't go their way, will be right back where they started - I know many like that. It is not easy to move one when you believe you've been screwed over - and those who did it won't even acknowledge you. Also there is a certain segment who do not want to look at any changes because they have exactly what they want, and are fearful that might change - no oneis telling them to suck it up for what might be right for the district as a whole. I am not saying you are in that camp because I don't believe you are - but let's acknowledge that exists also. Again, it's my ( and many others I know) opinion. If you believe it's the wrong stance that's fine and you are entitled to that opinion, but don't make the mistake of believing others can wish our opinion away - it won't happen. And in the long run that will do nothing to close the divide. There are several home in my area as well, but I'm not sure how much of that is being ticked off versus just the time of year. School is out, people pick this time of year to move and transition to a new place regardless of this district's circumstances. Two on my own street are moving simply because of job transfers, nothing else. How do you know that all the houses you see for sale isn't simply because of the time of year? Perhaps some people are also taking advantage of the housing market to "buy up". I hear you can get a much bigger house for the money these days. Of course, you have to sell the one you have first.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 11:20:09 GMT -5
Moving on while things can be better IMHO will not in the long run achieve the healing people are seeking. Just as continued poor communication from our SB will not accomplish that either - just because they got away with it up to now and things have progressed does notmake it right in my book. Also keep in mind there are those who don't post who are also upset - not just people who are moving on. I know 2 in my area who are making their concern visible by selling their homes and leaving. Neither have ever posted once -- asking people to just suck it up and move on - does nothing to heal the rift that has been created. I suggest that those who say they have moved on, the next time another decision doesn't go their way, will be right back where they started - I know many like that. It is not easy to move one when you believe you've been screwed over - and those who did it won't even acknowledge you. Also there is a certain segment who do not want to look at any changes because they have exactly what they want, and are fearful that might change - no oneis telling them to suck it up for what might be right for the district as a whole. I am not saying you are in that camp because I don't believe you are - but let's acknowledge that exists also. Again, it's my ( and many others I know) opinion. If you believe it's the wrong stance that's fine and you are entitled to that opinion, but don't make the mistake of believing others can wish our opinion away - it won't happen. And in the long run that will do nothing to close the divide. There are several home in my area as well, but I'm not sure how much of that is being ticked off versus just the time of year. School is out, people pick this time of year to move and transition to a new place regardless of this district's circumstances. Two on my own street are moving simply because of job transfers, nothing else. How do you know that all the houses you see for sale isn't simply because of the time of year? Perhaps some people are also taking advantage of the housing market to "buy up". I hear you can get a much bigger house for the money these days. Of course, you have to sell the one you have first. I know all three people and know the exact reason. 2/3 are moving to 203 to a smaller home to be able to afford the move... the other moving north. None of the 2 were planning on moving before this - and there is a 3rd I know who is also considering returning to the area they moved to Watts from over this ( a poster here) - they have very young children but worked for the ref and feels betrayed also. btw - the other 2 have let me know in no incertain terms that I supported the group who they feel have done them wrong - not a great feeling for me, as they are right. These are not random homes for sale - there are more of those - but I would not try and state their reasons as I do not know the people. I don't make this stuffup - these are facts here right now. There are 7 houses within 2 blocks of me for sale- the other 4 reasons for moving, I don't know, maybe I will knock on the door and ask - some likely for the reasons you state, but not the 2 I mentioned earlier. ( make it 3 when adding the poster here )
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 11:25:34 GMT -5
I am not going to discuss the merit of what changes should or should not be made but have a concern. So we open the can of worms and change Watts, why not other areas? There are a lot of areas that would have preferred a different high school assignment for a lot of different reasons and once you start making these exceptions, it could get ugly. Our district handles these boundary things so well, sarcasm intended. I agree. There is absolutely NO perfect solution. Therein lies the problem. Make one area happy and the other is ticked. I think it will be a platform for some of those looking to run for the SB and predict it will be another fiasco. We just can't go there again, IMO. SNM - I never voted for CV, never liked her, still don't. Can't wait to vote for her replacement. One can use something objective like district travel distance ( which equal costs ) - why it wasn't done the first time through is the question. Again I respect your opinion, but you also did not end up with the worst possible scenario. If White Eagle was assigned to AME ( and being west of 59 - the distance for some in WE is less than for some in Watts ) - and pick the 3rd closest MS ( let's say Gregory) I am willing to bet the feelings of many there would be different. People can say it wouldn't matter, but until it becomes reality for you, if it hard to make that statement.
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Post by warriorpride on Jun 3, 2008 12:09:32 GMT -5
Again, that's what many in this district ARE doing. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed on thes boards do not represent the entire district. There are others who do not frequent the boards but have expressed that they have moved on -whether they want to or not. It is best for the district to move on. Difficult task, I realize, but not impossible for most people, given a little effort and some willingness to let go of some of the hurt they feel. Moving on while things can be better IMHO will not in the long run achieve the healing people are seeking. Just as continued poor communication from our SB will not accomplish that either - just because they got away with it up to now and things have progressed does notmake it right in my book. Also keep in mind there are those who don't post who are also upset - not just people who are moving on. I know 2 in my area who are making their concern visible by selling their homes and leaving. Neither have ever posted once -- asking people to just suck it up and move on - does nothing to heal the rift that has been created. I suggest that those who say they have moved on, the next time another decision doesn't go their way, will be right back where they started - I know many like that. It is not easy to move one when you believe you've been screwed over - and those who did it won't even acknowledge you. Also there is a certain segment who do not want to look at any changes because they have exactly what they want, and are fearful that might change - no oneis telling them to suck it up for what might be right for the district as a whole. I am not saying you are in that camp because I don't believe you are - but let's acknowledge that exists also. Again, it's my ( and many others I know) opinion. If you believe it's the wrong stance that's fine and you are entitled to that opinion, but don't make the mistake of believing others can wish our opinion away - it won't happen. And in the long run that will do nothing to close the divide. Dr, it's clear that some people are unhappy, and that peopla are dealing with the unhappiness in different ways. We've heard your opinions and the situation for your area. You talk about "achieve the healing " and "heal the rift" and "close the divide" - what are your ideas/suggestions for archieving this? Maybe we should start a new thread...
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 3, 2008 12:20:54 GMT -5
Moving on while things can be better IMHO will not in the long run achieve the healing people are seeking. Just as continued poor communication from our SB will not accomplish that either - just because they got away with it up to now and things have progressed does notmake it right in my book. Also keep in mind there are those who don't post who are also upset - not just people who are moving on. I know 2 in my area who are making their concern visible by selling their homes and leaving. Neither have ever posted once -- asking people to just suck it up and move on - does nothing to heal the rift that has been created. I suggest that those who say they have moved on, the next time another decision doesn't go their way, will be right back where they started - I know many like that. It is not easy to move one when you believe you've been screwed over - and those who did it won't even acknowledge you. Also there is a certain segment who do not want to look at any changes because they have exactly what they want, and are fearful that might change - no oneis telling them to suck it up for what might be right for the district as a whole. I am not saying you are in that camp because I don't believe you are - but let's acknowledge that exists also. Again, it's my ( and many others I know) opinion. If you believe it's the wrong stance that's fine and you are entitled to that opinion, but don't make the mistake of believing others can wish our opinion away - it won't happen. And in the long run that will do nothing to close the divide. Dr, it's clear that some people are unhappy, and that peopla are dealing with the unhappiness in different ways. We've heard your opinions and the situation for your area. You talk about "achieve the healing " and "heal the rift" and "close the divide" - what are your ideas/suggestions for archieving this? Maybe we should start a new thread... Let me be clear- if there are people able to get past things , even though their areas got the short end of the stick - I am happy for them. Maybe they are better people than me and others I know , we cannot get there with just , it is what it is, move on. I think that is a good idea to start a new thread on what it will take to at least start the process - as it involves more than boundaries, it has to include IMHO - more open/honest communication from the SB ( including detailed cost analysis of MV since there is no risk of it not happening anyway) - / a review by the SB-SD of boundaries / transportation times/costs that lays out how they got to where they are / boundary reviews to see if things like the longest commutes have a solution - not just ignoring the people with those concerns / and an end to what I view as back room deals, and I am far from alone in that view - regadless of what side of the AME situation people are on I cannot speak for other areas as I do not know their concerns nearly as well- just what I read - but besides Watts - there is Owen West / Peterson/ Fry / Cowlishaw at the very least that need to be heard at least some, in order to just 'move on'
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Post by gatordog on Jun 3, 2008 12:28:19 GMT -5
Ask and you shall receive. Arch posted this tonight on blue: ============================ ES to MV: Brooks,662 Steck (90% non walkers),597Young,741 Brookdale,481 Longwood,477 McCarty (90% non walkers),606Cowlishaw/Granger (Satellite),202Watts(Lehigh Station-Satellite),35Total: 3801 2/3 of that is approx 2535 for MV ============================ ES to WV: Fry,871 White Eagle,579 Owen-WEST,280Peterson,444Watts (Non-Lehigh),503 Gombert,528 Georgetown,615 (10% walkers from Steck),66 (10% walkers from McCarty),67Total: 3953 2/3 of that is approx 2637 for WV (Room for growth from Peterson area) ============================ ES to NV: Springbrook,667 Clow,491 Kendall,710 Patterson,745 Graham,666 Welch,833 Builta,705 Cowlishaw (non-Granger),393 Owen-EAST,281 Total: 5491 2/3 of that is approx 3663 for NV (Room for growth from Builta area) ============ See...That is a good proposal IMHO, and should have been seriously considered. How is the MS breakdown with this? Boundary "do overs"? Well, show me, and everybody in the district that its clearly better than what we have now. The burden of proof, I do believe is extremely high for anybody that claims to have a "better" boundary plan. First, I am with wvhsparent....the above proposal is meaningless without showing MS assignments. My experience tells me....its easy to divvy up ES to HS, the hard part is assigning MS's! Right off the bat, though, its a step backwards in terms of ES splits. This has more than current plan. Not less. To match established criteria concern splits (a criteria that could be debated) this plan is in wrong direction, in that regard. Second, some ES details are wrong in that as others said, more of MCC are walkers. The entire neighborhood surrounding MCC ES, all the way to the railroad tracks has no bus service. That is much more than 10% of the school. Another big problem is the Peterson area east of 59 are walkers to NV. As somebody said, there is no perfect plan.
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Post by stmom on Jun 3, 2008 13:06:11 GMT -5
See...That is a good proposal IMHO, and should have been seriously considered. How is the MS breakdown with this? Boundary "do overs"? Well, show me, and everybody in the district that its clearly better than what we have now. The burden of proof, I do believe is extremely high for anybody that claims to have a "better" boundary plan. First, I am with wvhsparent....the above proposal is meaningless without showing MS assignments. My experience tells me....its easy to divvy up ES to HS, the hard part is assigning MS's! Right off the bat, though, its a step backwards in terms of ES splits. This has more than current plan. Not less. To match established criteria concern splits (a criteria that could be debated) this plan is in wrong direction, in that regard. Second, some ES details are wrong in that as others said, more of MCC are walkers. The entire neighborhood surrounding MCC ES, all the way to the railroad tracks has no bus service. That is much more than 10% of the school. Another big problem is the Peterson area east of 59 are walkers to NV. As somebody said, there is no perfect plan. I also agree that you would need to see the MS boundaries with this. As far as Steck walkers, I can tell you that it might actually be true. Although Oakhurst backs up to WV, there is no path and there are busses--don't know why though, because I see kids walking anyway all through the year. I believe Lakewood has the only true walkers. It's over a mile from my home to WV on google driving, but walking using a ped map is about < 0.5 miles. I don't really get why are we talking about boundaries again at this point.
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