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Post by momto4 on Sept 22, 2008 15:13:06 GMT -5
Wouldn't a presumably legal pair of scissors be just as effective a weapon as this little knife? One would think. Except that one is against the rules and the other isn't. I really don't think zero tolerance is the best policy in many cases and the ridiculousness of it has been proven over and over again in cases we see in national news.
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Post by gatormom on Sept 22, 2008 17:54:02 GMT -5
Wouldn't a presumably legal pair of scissors be just as effective a weapon as this little knife? One would think. Except that one is against the rules and the other isn't. I really don't think zero tolerance is the best policy in many cases and the ridiculousness of it has been proven over and over again in cases we see in national news. A knife is more than a weapon, it intimidates. Scissors can certainly be used as a weapon but there is actually a reason to have them at school. There is no reason to have a knife at school and they are against the rules. Once the district starts to punch holes in zero tolerance by making exceptions for whatever reason, it is gone and the safety we all want for our children is even more at risk. After all, once Johnny A can bring a 3-inch knife to school and get a minor slap on the wrist, why can't Johnny B bring a 4-inch knife to school? And if Johnny B gets away with a 4-inch knife, what is to stop Johnny C from bringing a 5-inch knife.
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Post by momto4 on Sept 22, 2008 18:23:57 GMT -5
One would think. Except that one is against the rules and the other isn't. I really don't think zero tolerance is the best policy in many cases and the ridiculousness of it has been proven over and over again in cases we see in national news. A knife is more than a weapon, it intimidates. Scissors can certainly be used as a weapon but there is actually a reason to have them at school. There is no reason to have a knife at school and they are against the rules. Once the district starts to punch holes in zero tolerance by making exceptions for whatever reason, it is gone and the safety we all want for our children is even more at risk. After all, once Johnny A can bring a 3-inch knife to school and get a minor slap on the wrist, why can't Johnny B bring a 4-inch knife to school? And if Johnny B gets away with a 4-inch knife, what is to stop Johnny C from bringing a 5-inch knife. I have to disagree that dealing with situations on a case by case basis and having reasonable consequences would lead to this. Also, I'm not only talking about teeny-tiny pocket knives. What about other things kids have gotten into serious trouble over around the country - like taking aspirin at lunchtime or a little boy kissing a little girl on the cheek?
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Post by gatormom on Sept 22, 2008 18:28:29 GMT -5
A knife is more than a weapon, it intimidates. Scissors can certainly be used as a weapon but there is actually a reason to have them at school. There is no reason to have a knife at school and they are against the rules. Once the district starts to punch holes in zero tolerance by making exceptions for whatever reason, it is gone and the safety we all want for our children is even more at risk. After all, once Johnny A can bring a 3-inch knife to school and get a minor slap on the wrist, why can't Johnny B bring a 4-inch knife to school? And if Johnny B gets away with a 4-inch knife, what is to stop Johnny C from bringing a 5-inch knife. I have to disagree that dealing with situations on a case by case basis and having reasonable consequences would lead to this. Also, I'm not only talking about teeny-tiny pocket knives. What about other things kids have gotten into serious trouble over around the country - like taking aspirin at lunchtime or a little boy kissing a little girl on the cheek? As long as you fill the proper forms out, your child can take aspirin at lunch. The little boy thing, silly in my opinion. Teeny-tiny pocket knife? There is no excuse for bringing it to school. There are consequences and they do mitigate them to the situation. But there have to be consequences even for the kid who just didn't know it was wrong.
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Post by sardines on Sept 23, 2008 8:47:28 GMT -5
Wouldn't a presumably legal pair of scissors be just as effective a weapon as this little knife? One would think. Except that one is against the rules and the other isn't. I really don't think zero tolerance is the best policy in many cases and the ridiculousness of it has been proven over and over again in cases we see in national news. I know what you're saying about some of the ridiculous extents zero tolerance can be taken to, but I don't think the district can have a policy that says "we will act on a case to case basis when a kid brings a knife to school". I think that's the point. Had it been plain scissors or something of that nature it probably wouldn't have even registered with the kid that turned him in. He felt uneasy enough, seeing a swiss army knife to make the effort to report it. Aren't we always trying to encourage our kids to act on their gut and report suspicious or out of the ordinary situations? I think the kid reporting did the right thing and I think the district had to stand by its policy to treat it seriously. Ten days may or may not have been too severe as I think more about it. I don't know enough of the kid's whole background or if all he really was doing was picking a wart (that was the mother's explanation remember) to make that judgement .
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Post by momto4 on Sept 23, 2008 9:01:05 GMT -5
One would think. Except that one is against the rules and the other isn't. I really don't think zero tolerance is the best policy in many cases and the ridiculousness of it has been proven over and over again in cases we see in national news. I know what you're saying about some of the ridiculous extents zero tolerance can be taken to, but I don't think the district can have a policy that says "we will act on a case to case basis when a kid brings a knife to school". I think that's the point. Had it been plain scissors or something of that nature it probably wouldn't have even registered with the kid that turned him in. He felt uneasy enough, seeing a swiss army knife to make the effort to report it. Aren't we always trying to encourage our kids to act on their gut and report suspicious or out of the ordinary situations? I think the kid reporting did the right thing and I think the district had to stand by its policy to treat it seriously. Ten days may or may not have been too severe as I think more about it. I don't know enough of the kid's whole background or if all he really was doing was picking a wart (that was the mother's explanation remember) to make that judgement . There is a difference between - we expel any kid who brings any knife to school, and we look at things on a case by case basis and give punishment more fitting to the crime. If someone threatens another student with a knife, this is much different than if someone brought a fork and knife to school with their lunch and was using the knife to cut food. Yes, this person still broke the rule and all but shouldn't be expelled. Ten days seems harsh for a small pocketknife but I also think that all HS kids are well aware that this is not allowed, so maybe this is the right punishment after all. I wonder if the district does mostly in-school or out of school suspensions for punishments. If we are not doing mostly in-school suspension, then I think we should be. This separates kids from their peers while they still spend the day at school doing their schoolwork as opposed to giving them a vacation from which they'd have a hard time ever catching up after, even if they'd been motivated to start with.
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Post by sardines on Sept 23, 2008 9:27:35 GMT -5
That's true. They technically could have expelled him but in this case they chose to just suspend him. So he did receive the lesser of the two punishments as stated per policy. I do agree with the in school suspension after everything has been investigated and addressed. Still too many unanswered questions, however, to be able to determine if this was fair or unfair punishment in this situation.
The kid eating breakfast on the bus with the knife and fork got a warning. To me, it does seem, that they do take into account the whole situation and apply the punishment as they see fit.
I personally would have a problem if the army knife incident was treated with just a "slap on the wrist" or a day or two of suspension. Not a good precedent.Just my opinion.
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Post by gatordog on Sept 23, 2008 9:43:29 GMT -5
... I personally would have a problem if this was treated with just a "slap on the wrist" or a day or two of suspension. Not a good precedent.Just my opinion. Do you think a one or two day suspension is a "slap on the wrist"? I dont. I think that is a serious punishment.
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Post by sardines on Sept 23, 2008 10:00:27 GMT -5
... I personally would have a problem if this was treated with just a "slap on the wrist" or a day or two of suspension. Not a good precedent.Just my opinion. Do you think a one or two day suspension is a "slap on the wrist"? I dont. I think that is a serious punishment. I honestly do although as I stated previously I think in school suspension would be optimal if all of the"behind the scenes" facts deemed it to be appropriate versus out of school. I think kids have to know how serious it is to bring a weapon to school and I do consider a swiss army knife a weapon. Again, just my opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree
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