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Post by WeNeed3 on Sept 24, 2008 14:23:11 GMT -5
I got one other answer. Kind of makes sense. By the way, this is all courtesy of M2. You really need a core critical mass to make a comprehensive high school cost effective. Making Metea smaller means raising the overall district expense level because of the loss of efficiency (where "efficiency" means cost effectiveness), because we're not going to want to offer a subset of the whole program there, and fewer students to spread out the cost of providing a comprehensive school combined with the need to do more hiring at WV would spell increased cost.I'm sure MM's above comment would apply to the blue board's wanting to only have the freshman switch to the new schools next year and keep the sophs where they are at. I understand where they are coming from but I can't imagine a whole school opening with just freshman while the other schools are crammed full. I noticed Plainfield did the same thing (fresh/sophs) when opening their schools.
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Post by momto4 on Sept 24, 2008 14:30:38 GMT -5
I agree it's best to have fresh/soph for many reasons. Also, some high schools open with three grades (for example a friend of mine in Miami has this situation this year).
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Post by gatordog on Sept 24, 2008 14:32:35 GMT -5
I modified my opening post in this thread to include a 4th case....one that reflects better understaning. Check it out!
One comment, to me THE most important thing about boundary criteria is enrollment balance. (MM talks about it in efficiency terms....I can see that).
Bottom line there is one thing that effects 100% of our HS students and 100% of our taxpayers: delivering quatlity educational curriculum. IMHO this trumps a few students (and their VOCAL parents) sitting at an extra stoplight or two, or having to make new friends etc etc.
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Post by warriorpride on Sept 24, 2008 14:53:30 GMT -5
I got one other answer. Kind of makes sense. By the way, this is all courtesy of M2. You really need a core critical mass to make a comprehensive high school cost effective. Making Metea smaller means raising the overall district expense level because of the loss of efficiency (where "efficiency" means cost effectiveness), because we're not going to want to offer a subset of the whole program there, and fewer students to spread out the cost of providing a comprehensive school combined with the need to do more hiring at WV would spell increased cost.I'm sure MM's above comment would apply to the blue board's wanting to only have the freshman switch to the new schools next year and keep the sophs where they are at. I understand where they are coming from but I can't imagine a whole school opening with just freshman while the other schools are crammed full. I noticed Plainfield did the same thing (fresh/sophs) when opening their schools. The BB logic fails me (as usual) - they are, on one hand, complaining that the current plan will overcrowd WV next year, and on the other hand suggestinf that all 1000+ current WV freshman stay at WV (instead on 600) moving (thus putting 600 more at WV)? let me guess: those suggesting that freshman stay where there are next year have freshman at NV
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Post by gatordog on Sept 24, 2008 15:35:49 GMT -5
Last I heard from Kathy Birkett is that she expects WV enrollment to be 3,100 for 09-10, not counting the kids who will go to Frontier (which will bring that number down by probably 60-75 kids).
3,655 was the peak enrollment at WV the year before we opened NV. so....if the 600 WV sophs dont move to MV in 2009, WV Green would be holding 3100+600 (not going to MV)-250 (not coming from NV Gold)= 3450. do-able, I guess. NV Blue would have (from end of yr attendance in June 08) 1135+1190+ (391+476+392 from last yrs 8th grade class at the feeder MS's) = 3584. Not so do-able! this is 3584/3200 = 112% of full capacity! By moving the 250 NV Gold student into WV as sophs, it gets NV to 3334. And a few go to frontier...so even with the move, NV is just barely skating through. My concl: we have to move sophs for NV overcrowding, independent of other reasons! The slightly bigger WV Green would could get by, it seems. EDIT-For NV enroll, factor in Frontier campus numbers. Maybe 100? ~10% of senior class as guess? NV Blue still would be over capacity unless the WE/TG sophs move, it sure looks like.
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Post by wvhsparent on Sept 24, 2008 15:39:26 GMT -5
GD
Did you factor in Frontier Campus?
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Post by momto4 on Sept 24, 2008 16:39:41 GMT -5
I am concerned about the idea that this year's freshmen should be left where they are. This would have a crowding effect on both NV and WV and would make MV a "freshman campus" for the first year and make for issues with the opening of MV as a comprehensive HS. Or if some would like to leave NV's class of 2012 there but move out the 600 WV freshmen to MV, then we would have very lopsided class sizes and opportunities between the three schools. I think the plan in place is the best one - open with new boundaries and fresh/soph. Much better than opening with three grades even though that would allow for the varsity sports right away as some would like to see.
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Post by WeNeed3 on Sept 24, 2008 17:11:08 GMT -5
It does seem like other schools do the two grades at once thing. People seem to be forgetting the fact that we have 4700 students at NV now and it's a mess. It's crowded at both schools, so it makes sense to move as many students over to MV as possible and then follow suit with WV so that it is the most balanced as possible. And if WV can allow for a temporary larger capacity limit, then it makes sense to move as many over there as well.
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Post by momto4 on Sept 24, 2008 17:26:50 GMT -5
Also, we did it this way when NV opened and it seems like everyone survived, the students and NV turned out ok.
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Post by WeNeed3 on Sept 24, 2008 19:01:34 GMT -5
Also, we did it this way when NV opened and it seems like everyone survived, the students and NV turned out ok. IMHO, the gold campuses are an interesting concept when you are determining if a child is getting a complete HS experience. I don't believe the gold campuses existed when NV opened, correct? I'm still trying to determine whether I even like the gold campus concept... I guess I will form my opinion when my kids go through. To me, the gold campuses are really just another MS with a HS name. I know that the district really touts that the freshman belong over there but I get the impression from talking to some kids that they don't always feel like part of the HS anyway. I think that things would be worse if WV and NV were four-year buildings. Then the kids would be actually in the building with all the older kids and really getting a feel of "real" HS life. That would then stink to have to switch buildings. This gold campus thing might make the transition a little better for some of these 9th graders. Just my opinion though.
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Post by gatordog on Sept 25, 2008 12:24:05 GMT -5
IMHO, the gold campuses are an interesting concept when you are determining if a child is getting a complete HS experience. I don't believe the gold campuses existed when NV opened, correct? I'm still trying to determine whether I even like the gold campus concept... I guess I will form my opinion when my kids go through. To me, the gold campuses are really just another MS with a HS name. I know that the district really touts that the freshman belong over there but I get the impression from talking to some kids that they don't always feel like part of the HS anyway. ..... yes, I am having my first (and only!) taste of a Gold campus this year. I will form my opinion. I like it. I know from curicullum nite that administrators really like it. One thing about WV Gold: its position diagonal across busy roads is far from ideal. Whereas NV Gold is nicely located. So if we are getting rid of one, its fortunate geography-wise that its WV Gold.
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Post by JWH on Sept 25, 2008 12:55:35 GMT -5
I'm sure MM's above comment would apply to the blue board's wanting to only have the freshman switch to the new schools next year and keep the sophs where they are at. I understand where they are coming from but I can't imagine a whole school opening with just freshman while the other schools are crammed full. I noticed Plainfield did the same thing (fresh/sophs) when opening their schools. The BB logic fails me (as usual) - they are, on one hand, complaining that the current plan will overcrowd WV next year, and on the other hand suggestinf that all 1000+ current WV freshman stay at WV (instead on 600) moving (thus putting 600 more at WV)? let me guess: those suggesting that freshman stay where there are next year have freshman at NV Yeah, it's amazing how this wasn't an issue (Freshman starting at one school, then moving to another) when it was the BB site.
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Post by gatormom on Sept 25, 2008 15:55:21 GMT -5
The BB logic fails me (as usual) - they are, on one hand, complaining that the current plan will overcrowd WV next year, and on the other hand suggestinf that all 1000+ current WV freshman stay at WV (instead on 600) moving (thus putting 600 more at WV)? let me guess: those suggesting that freshman stay where there are next year have freshman at NV Yeah, it's amazing how this wasn't an issue (Freshman starting at one school, then moving to another) when it was the BB site. I think with BB it was too far away time-wise. People were not really in the "its my kid" mode yet. Some of us whose children were originally supposed to go to Metea at BB had to think about it more. We knew that the school was going to start with freshman and sophmores. Looking at the numbers, it would be irresponsible to the children in this district to continue overcrowding that is not necessary with the opening of Metea. I remember when Oswego opened their new high school, they had the same complaints. Some people didn't want their children to move, to open a new school. And they too started with freshman and sophmores.
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Post by WeNeed3 on Sept 25, 2008 17:36:48 GMT -5
I must admit, it will be great for the kids to be going to a school where the actual student population is around 80-85% of capacity, instead of over 100%. This district is too good to have overcrowded schools like we have been having over the last few years.
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Post by asmodeus on Sept 26, 2008 13:49:57 GMT -5
Overcrowded is not the same as maximum capacity. If a school is designed for 4700 and enrollment is 4700, it is NOT overcrowded. It may seem full, crowded, busy, etc., but by defnition it is not overcrowded. Choice of words is very important in these discussions.
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