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Post by gatordog on Mar 16, 2010 11:57:06 GMT -5
....Personally, I think ADK should be eliminated. We couldn't afford it in the first place. We relied on $ from the state and went ahead and implemented before we had the $. We can thank Dr. D for that one. Sorry for those older K students, had one myself, but as a SD we have to think of the whole not just a handful. I fully agree with both of you. What would the SD be like without free ADK for everyone? Well, we all know from two-yr ago experience, dont we? Yes, the cuts would hit hardest on one group of teachers: those brought in to teach K. My feeling is we get more educational value retaining more teachers at the higher ES, MS, and HS levels.
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Post by momto4 on Mar 16, 2010 12:02:58 GMT -5
I fully agree with both of you. What would the SD be like without free ADK for everyone? Well, we all know from two-yr ago experience, dont we? Yes, the cuts would hit hardest on one group of teachers: those brought in to teach K. My feeling is we get more educational value retaining more teachers at the higher ES, MS, and HS levels. I think ADK should be free for those who need it (which it already was in some cases prior to the district-wide implementation) and for a fee for everyone else, if it's feasible to do so. Most kids in the district have been doing just fine with half day K all along.
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Post by momto4 on Mar 16, 2010 21:55:28 GMT -5
The latest info I have:
To All,
First, let me apologize for sending this email to all of you, but to date, I've received 25 emails regarding "drastic cuts" to District 204's excellent music program.
Thank you for your thoughtful and thought-provoking correspondence. Each of you has articulated a passion for our music program, which I feel, as well.
Some of you may know that I am a Waubonsie Valley alum. Music played a huge role in my high school years, and beyond.
In high school, I was a proud member of WVHS's Swing Choir; Senior Choir (I believe it's called Chamber Choir now); and I was a junior mentor for the Freshman Girl's Choir.
Beyond High School, I believe the diction, teamwork, etc. played a huge role in my success as a broadcast journalist.
I, personally, didn't play sports. Music and theater were my life, as I'm hearing that that's the case for many of you and/or your students, as well.
In that spirit, I want you to know that our administration IS NOT/WILL NOT "gut" our district's award-winning Fine Arts Program.
I applaud you for your passion. If I had heard the misinformation that you're hearing -- as I'm reading in your emails, I would be outraged, too.
Let me reassure you, however, that despite these difficult financial times, Fine Arts is much too valuable to our district's pride and identity for us to decimate the program.
I've personally watched our Fine Arts program grow to the heights it is today, over the past three decades. Yes. We, as a Board, are facing very difficult financial decisions, but it is NOT our intent to go backward.
The facts are these: The D204 administration has proposed the following regarding music:
* Reduce 5th grade band and orchestra staff by four (4) full time employees; and use the remaining band/orchestra employees more effectively and efficiently throughout our elementary school buildings.
* Continue middle school band and orchestra as is, but eliminate middle school technique classes (held one hour per week for two to four students at a time).
If you have heard about ANY District 204 music cuts beyond those two items, you have been misinformed.
These are the administration's ONLY recommendations regarding our district-wide music program.
The administration will make these recommendations to the Board on Monday night. The Board will then continue to listen to parents/taxpayers, and will make final decisions possibly by mid-April.
Thank you for sharing your concerns. I hope this information helps.
Warm regards, Dawn DeSart IPSD 204 Board of Education
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Post by gatordog on Mar 17, 2010 10:44:29 GMT -5
thanks, mt4 for this detailed info. ..... * Reduce 5th grade band and orchestra staff by four (4) full time employees; and use the remaining band/orchestra employees more effectively and efficiently throughout our elementary school buildings. So a few music teachers will be shared amongst several ESs? I thought we were already doing this? So more will be shared now? The student pull-out for focused technique....is this unique to 204 schools? Is this one of the things that contributes to our especially strong MS and HS music programs? Yes, i understand, there is a cost to this. And its a cost we cant afford right now, apparently.
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Post by momto4 on Mar 17, 2010 11:08:01 GMT -5
thanks, mt4 for this detailed info. ..... * Reduce 5th grade band and orchestra staff by four (4) full time employees; and use the remaining band/orchestra employees more effectively and efficiently throughout our elementary school buildings. So a few music teachers will be shared amongst several ESs? I thought we were already doing this? So more will be shared now? The student pull-out for focused technique....is this unique to 204 schools? Is this one of the things that contributes to our especially strong MS and HS music programs? Yes, i understand, there is a cost to this. And its a cost we cant afford right now, apparently. As I understand it, more sharing of ES teachers than there is now, requiring two schools to hold band/orchestra during the school day instead of before school. It would be interesting to know whether other districts have technique for MS band and orchestra, and if not, how do the students learn the material if they don't have a private teacher? I have heard two concerns about not having technique. One is that our MS band/orchestra will become elitist, i.e. accessible only to those who can afford private lessons or to pay for technique class outside of the school day (if offered). The other is that kids who do have private lessons would be the ones quitting because the quality of the program would need to cater to those kids who don't get any help outside of classroom time and therefore would hold less interest for them. Currently a large number of students from our district go on to music-related careers after their positive experience with the music depts. in our schools. I would hate to see this change.
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Post by wvhsparent on Mar 17, 2010 12:51:33 GMT -5
Doc, Congratulations, you prompted me to join this board. Are you mad that more people won't jump on your bandwagon? Go back to blue and be blue. If you truly think you can persuade anyone to think that your posts are altruistically for the good of 204, then go back and re-read them. Every one of them speaks to a spoiled child that didn't get there way. (school). No one could have predicted the depth of this recession, and regardless, the majority of the D204 residents voted for a 3rd high school. Which, by the way if one fine building. Sorry for the belated welcome grounded. Thank you for joining, and I hope to hear more from you in the future.
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Post by asmodeus on Mar 18, 2010 7:38:12 GMT -5
No one disputes the fact that the ref passed on the second attempt. But the SD had plenty of time to reconsider. The ref only gave the authority to issue bonds for a 3rd HS. It didn't force the SD to build in the face of a staggering economic downturn and a clearer picture of future enrollment.
And MV is NOT "one fine building." It is a disgrace of a building that was built for many, many millions more than Turner's own building cost index projected it should cost.
Back to the topic, I would rather see certain music programs cut (or offered for a fee) than see ADK go back to half-day.
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Post by gatordog on Mar 18, 2010 9:12:43 GMT -5
Back to the topic, I would rather see certain music programs cut (or offered for a fee) than see ADK go back to half-day. The scale of savings from any trimming of the music program is no where near the potential savings from scaling back ADK or adding tutition for this. If you look at MS's with about 5 music staff, and ES's with about 2 music staff (assuming band/orch instructors shared), thats about 75 staff. I think that is about the same scale of additional employees for ADK. So I think the comparison you are making of music cuts instead of ADK, to make them the same scale of dollars savings, would be virtually eliminating all ES and MS music programs. I think this is a pretty good way to put this into perspective.
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Post by asmodeus on Mar 18, 2010 10:06:17 GMT -5
Back to the topic, I would rather see certain music programs cut (or offered for a fee) than see ADK go back to half-day. The scale of savings from any trimming of the music program is no where near the potential savings from scaling back ADK or adding tutition for this. If you look at MS's with about 5 music staff, and ES's with about 2 music staff (assuming band/orch instructors shared), thats about 75 staff. I think that is about the same scale of additional employees for ADK. So I think the comparison you are making of music cuts instead of ADK, to make them the same scale of dollars savings, would be virtually eliminating all ES and MS music programs. I think this is a pretty good way to put this into perspective. Agreed...I'm not saying the two things would have comparable costs. To me, keeping ADK would be worth cuts to other programs.
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Post by gatordog on Mar 18, 2010 11:02:07 GMT -5
Agreed...I'm not saying the two things would have comparable costs. To me, keeping ADK would be worth cuts to other programs. But what I am afraid of, is it would mean lots of cuts to lots of other programs. Well, K registration for next year is already done. Any discussion of changing the ADK program doesnt appear to me to be seriously on the table, at least near term.
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Post by grounded on Mar 18, 2010 11:37:55 GMT -5
The scale of savings from any trimming of the music program is no where near the potential savings from scaling back ADK or adding tutition for this. If you look at MS's with about 5 music staff, and ES's with about 2 music staff (assuming band/orch instructors shared), thats about 75 staff. I think that is about the same scale of additional employees for ADK. So I think the comparison you are making of music cuts instead of ADK, to make them the same scale of dollars savings, would be virtually eliminating all ES and MS music programs. I think this is a pretty good way to put this into perspective. Agreed...I'm not saying the two things would have comparable costs. To me, keeping ADK would be worth cuts to other programs. I think a fee for ADK would be appropriate before cutting music and other programs. Most of the parents I know that are happy about ADK were mainly thrilled due to eliminating a daycare issue for half a day. I'd rather have our education dollars go to enriching middle school and high school level students, than an extra few hours of storytime for Kindergarteners.
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Post by asmodeus on Mar 18, 2010 12:19:01 GMT -5
I really don't understand this sentiment. Most people agree that pre-school is beneficial for the educational development of children...wouldn't cutting kindergarten in half have a detrimental effect?
I cherish music and sports as much as anybody, but they are electives. And they can be taken up at any age. You don't get a second chance at kindergarten.
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Post by mom24 on Mar 18, 2010 16:01:13 GMT -5
I really don't understand this sentiment. Most people agree that pre-school is beneficial for the educational development of children...wouldn't cutting kindergarten in half have a detrimental effect? I cherish music and sports as much as anybody, but they are electives. And they can be taken up at any age. You don't get a second chance at kindergarten. Kindergarten is an elective too in Illinois. In the sense that it is not mandatory that a child go to Kindergarten. To think that these kids in ADK will be any smarter than those ahead of them is absolute hogwash. A child who wants to learn and has support at home will be just fine no matter what. For the handful that ADK was intended for will always be behind because they have zero support at home.
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Post by asmodeus on Mar 18, 2010 22:06:13 GMT -5
Interesting. To summarize your views:
1. ADK was intended only for a handful of kids. 2. ADK is a pointless endeavor for kids who have support at home.
I think you'll find yourself in the tiny minority on those thoughts.
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Post by mom24 on Mar 19, 2010 0:37:10 GMT -5
Interesting. To summarize your views: 1. ADK was intended only for a handful of kids. 2. ADK is a pointless endeavor for kids who have support at home. I think you'll find yourself in the tiny minority on those thoughts. Yes it was. If you recall, it was a pilot program at Georgetown. No secret that it has been an under performing school for many years. They were the first to have the program under Dr. D and he loved it so much he rammed it down our throats w/o proper funding from the SD or the state. Nothing new of course "ADK is pointless" are your words not mine. And when your SD is in the red and studies show that ADK isn't any better for the kids than 1/2 then maybe it does need to be pulled back. If your looking at cuts you have to look at everything.
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