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Post by wvhsparent on Jun 4, 2008 19:02:41 GMT -5
arch - here is something from my column written in early July of last year, before the August troubles with Holmes/Macom/QT/etc. The edited column was published on 7/6/07. With quick-take the land price would be set fairly by a jury using local comparable sales for the reference time-frame. It is reasonable to believe from the information available that the price should come in not much above the amount that the district has offered for the land, which is nowhere near the exorbitant amount requested by the trust.We all got that part wrong.....
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Post by wvhsparent on Jun 4, 2008 19:06:10 GMT -5
The fees sound like they are in line with what the SD/SB thought they would be. Hopefully they will be able to argue some of the expenses (like the QT Lobbyest) is not reasonable and get it reduced further. As far Brodie's other suit, I feel fairly confident that will be thrown out or at the very least, if adjudicated, be an obscenely small amount like $1.00.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 4, 2008 19:09:11 GMT -5
Knowing some of the SB members what I felt was pretty well, I am willing to bet they would admit to more mistakes than some of the apologist support I am reading now. You're right they did nothing wrong, it's all the darn parents ( in some areas) fault - ( and Linda Holmes, and Paul Lehman, and the NPD, and whoever came up with that idea for a pedestrian bridge et at. ) we expected what they promised. Don't worry, that won't happen again. There'll be no need for future blanket support. Dr. Who - You might be able to twist on blue and get away with it, but you're not going to twist my words here. I've never said the SB has done nothing wrong. I've said before that they mismanaged some things or could have done much better in the way of communication, etc. They make and have made mistakes. We all do, but what I hear from you and other NSFOC supporters is that it IS all the SB's fault. I mean, come on! The bridge? That's the SB's fault now? The SB never told them to build the d**n bridge. The city of Naperville built it to join areas of that portion of the community. If you haven't noticed lately, the area around 95th and Rt. 59 is quite populated with more and more businesses and homes! The bridge will get used, I'm sure. And it wasn't built for the sole purpose of TG residents to cross over. Hell, they wouldn't have used it if MVHS were at BB, so what is the point of blaming the SB for the bridge? I'm surprised you aren't blaming the high price of gas on the SB/SD. Or is that tomorrow's rant? ETA: edited for language and clarification. no one is twisting, and I never mentioned you. I said there is some blind devotion that they can do no wrong- your rant just proves my point-. btw - the assumption I am an nsfoc supporter is your assumption - and a bad one, but don't let that stop a good tirade. Also point me to a post where I said it is ALL their fault. Is a lot of it their fault - yes, and I was part of it long enough to know that and don't need a guidebook on how we got here from you. Or point me to these fanthom posts about how I or others blame them for the weather - who's twisting there. Do I consider your posts apologist in nature - yes, and you are not alone ( which was my original point) - just as you view my words are somehow ALL condemning - the difference is I didn't go off on you. Next time you want to make it personal- have your facts straight please. thank you. You would like to say whatever you want and not be challenged - it doesn't work that way IMHO, on blue - green or polka dot.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 4, 2008 19:13:57 GMT -5
arch - here is something from my column written in early July of last year, before the August troubles with Holmes/Macom/QT/etc. The edited column was published on 7/6/07. With quick-take the land price would be set fairly by a jury using local comparable sales for the reference time-frame. It is reasonable to believe from the information available that the price should come in not much above the amount that the district has offered for the land, which is nowhere near the exorbitant amount requested by the trust.We all got that part wrong..... Yes we did have that wrong, but being told we could afford whatever came back helped many of us get to that point. Before the election was held they knew the range of where the price could come in, based on what BB was asking. A little honesty there to say, we can afford $350K - or no more than $400K would have gone a long way vs. we have a buffer put in to take care of that. I listened to those comments made in PTA meetings - maybe it was just overconfidence speaking, but people should have known the what if - and the back up plan. To not put that out there is why there are accused of hiding the facts... whether it was done on purpose or not hardly matters - it is what resulted. It is an example of a mistake - was there some huge conspiracy on that - likely not...but people voted on that overconfidence- and yes, shame on us for doing so - hindsight is 20/20.
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Post by wvhsparent on Jun 4, 2008 19:24:49 GMT -5
We all got that part wrong..... Yes we did have that wrong, but being told we could afford whatever came back helped many of us get to that point. Before the election was held they knew the range of where the price could come in, based on what BB was asking. A little honesty there to say, we can afford $350K - or no more than $400K would have gone a long way vs. we have a buffer put in to take care of that. I listened to those comments made in PTA meetings - maybe it was just overconfidence speaking, but people should have known the what if - and the back up plan. To not put that out there is why there are accused of hiding the facts... whether it was done on purpose or not hardly matters - it is what resulted. People voted on that overcinfidence- and yes, shame on us for doing so - hindsight is 20/20. I tried calling M2 on that very point ( and many others too...you know who you are... ). I thought I got an admission out of M2 (in a roundabout way) that over 400-450k/acre was too much.....but not to worry...it'll be much less than that!
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Post by chicoryowl on Jun 4, 2008 19:31:34 GMT -5
Dr. Who - You might be able to twist on blue and get away with it, but you're not going to twist my words here. I've never said the SB has done nothing wrong. I've said before that they mismanaged some things or could have done much better in the way of communication, etc. They make and have made mistakes. We all do, but what I hear from you and other NSFOC supporters is that it IS all the SB's fault. I mean, come on! The bridge? That's the SB's fault now? The SB never told them to build the d**n bridge. The city of Naperville built it to join areas of that portion of the community. If you haven't noticed lately, the area around 95th and Rt. 59 is quite populated with more and more businesses and homes! The bridge will get used, I'm sure. And it wasn't built for the sole purpose of TG residents to cross over. Hell, they wouldn't have used it if MVHS were at BB, so what is the point of blaming the SB for the bridge? I'm surprised you aren't blaming the high price of gas on the SB/SD. Or is that tomorrow's rant? ETA: edited for language and clarification. no one is twisting, and I never mentioned you. I said there is some blind devotion that they can do no wrong- your rant just proves my point-. btw - the assumption I am an nsfoc supporter is your assumption - and a bad one, but don't let that stop a good tirade. Also point me to a post where I said it is ALL their fault. Is a lot of it their fault - yes, and I was part of it long enough to know that and don't need a guidebook on how we got here from you. Or point me to these fanthom posts about how I or others blame them for the weather - who's twisting there. Do I consider your posts apologist in nature - yes, and you are not alone ( which was my original point) - just as you view my words are somehow ALL condemning - the difference is I didn't go off on you. Next time you want to make it personal- have your facts straight please. thank you. You would like to say whatever you want and not be challenged - it doesn't work that way IMHO, on blue - green or polka dot. I've avoided as much of these discussions as possible and I see why. I don't know how you get that eb204's post proves your point that there is blind devotion to the SB when you he/she indicates that the SB is not perfect and has made mistakes. And BTW, how does one define SB apologist? Is it somebody that refuses to attack them at every turn? I guess that's me too. I think they've made plenty of mistakes. But i don't feel the need to constantly rail against them.
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Post by Arch on Jun 4, 2008 19:50:53 GMT -5
Yes we did have that wrong, but being told we could afford whatever came back helped many of us get to that point. Before the election was held they knew the range of where the price could come in, based on what BB was asking. A little honesty there to say, we can afford $350K - or no more than $400K would have gone a long way vs. we have a buffer put in to take care of that. I listened to those comments made in PTA meetings - maybe it was just overconfidence speaking, but people should have known the what if - and the back up plan. To not put that out there is why there are accused of hiding the facts... whether it was done on purpose or not hardly matters - it is what resulted. People voted on that overcinfidence- and yes, shame on us for doing so - hindsight is 20/20. I tried calling M2 on that very point ( and many others too...you know who you are... ). I thought I got an admission out of M2 (in a roundabout way) that over 400-450k/acre was too much.....but not to worry...it'll be much less than that! This sounds like a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing. Saying one is willing to escrow 600K/acre and then have a figure already in mind that 450K was too much is a bit silly. That is a complete breakdown in the organization and whatever led to that discrepancy on financial pictures needs to be fixed so it does not happen again going forward. Organizationally, who decided that 450 was too much and when did they decide it?
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Post by warriorpride on Jun 4, 2008 19:57:06 GMT -5
I tried calling M2 on that very point ( and many others too...you know who you are... ). I thought I got an admission out of M2 (in a roundabout way) that over 400-450k/acre was too much.....but not to worry...it'll be much less than that! This sounds like a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing. Saying one is willing to escrow 600K/acre and then have a figure already in mind that 450K was too much is a bit silly. That is a complete breakdown in the organization and whatever led to that discrepancy on financial pictures needs to be fixed so it does not happen again going forward. Organizationally, who decided that 450 was too much and when did they decide it? last warning for this thread - please stay on topic - I understand that this is somewhat related, on a certain dimension, to the BB fees that we will pay, but I see no need to revisit what price could or should have been been paid for BB - especially in this thread - but, honestly, I don't see the value in discussing it in any thread - hopefully the BB fees will be in range with what the SB bugeted, and BB will soon be a fading memory
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Post by wvhsparent on Jun 4, 2008 20:09:09 GMT -5
They were in court today on the fees, and on the Brodie suit. Nothing new was uploaded to the clerks system yet. I will check again in the AM to see if there is anything new.
I hope that they are going to go over every line item and reduce it by a bunch.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 4, 2008 20:32:55 GMT -5
Dr. Who - You might be able to twist on blue and get away with it, but you're not going to twist my words here. I've never said the SB has done nothing wrong. I've said before that they mismanaged some things or could have done much better in the way of communication, etc. They make and have made mistakes. We all do, but what I hear from you and other NSFOC supporters is that it IS all the SB's fault. I mean, come on! The bridge? That's the SB's fault now? The SB never told them to build the d**n bridge. The city of Naperville built it to join areas of that portion of the community. If you haven't noticed lately, the area around 95th and Rt. 59 is quite populated with more and more businesses and homes! The bridge will get used, I'm sure. And it wasn't built for the sole purpose of TG residents to cross over. Hell, they wouldn't have used it if MVHS were at BB, so what is the point of blaming the SB for the bridge? I'm surprised you aren't blaming the high price of gas on the SB/SD. Or is that tomorrow's rant? ETA: edited for language and clarification. no one is twisting, and I never mentioned you. I said there is some blind devotion that they can do no wrong- your rant just proves my point-. btw - the assumption I am an nsfoc supporter is your assumption - and a bad one, but don't let that stop a good tirade. Also point me to a post where I said it is ALL their fault. Is a lot of it their fault - yes, and I was part of it long enough to know that and don't need a guidebook on how we got here from you. Or point me to these fanthom posts about how I or others blame them for the weather - who's twisting there. Do I consider your posts apologist in nature - yes, and you are not alone ( which was my original point) - just as you view my words are somehow ALL condemning - the difference is I didn't go off on you. Next time you want to make it personal- have your facts straight please. thank you. You would like to say whatever you want and not be challenged - it doesn't work that way IMHO, on blue - green or polka dot. I guess you didn't see the portion in red that was highlighted. I'll make it glowing, so you can see it better. And that fact that you quoted me led me to believe you were addressing me. As for the blind devotion, I haven't heard one person on here say the SB is perfect. Everyone here has something they wish the SB could have done differently. You may just be coming back to green, so you might want to read through the other posts. Also, just because they've made some mistakes doesn't mean the need to be burned at the stake for it. They've also done a lot of good, but I don't see many from "your side" acknowledging that. It seems as if you and others just want to wallow in your own sorrows and re-live every horrible moment of the last 2 years and take others down with you. It's a choice you make. My "rant" comes from the repetitiveness of your posts. We get it. I'm begging you, move on, man.
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Post by wvhsparent on Jun 4, 2008 20:38:52 GMT -5
eb---doc.......take it outside please!!!!! start a new thread on your likes and dislikes of the SB.....I'll chime in there too.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 4, 2008 20:44:53 GMT -5
I'm done.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 4, 2008 20:50:42 GMT -5
no one is twisting, and I never mentioned you. I said there is some blind devotion that they can do no wrong- your rant just proves my point-. btw - the assumption I am an nsfoc supporter is your assumption - and a bad one, but don't let that stop a good tirade. Also point me to a post where I said it is ALL their fault. Is a lot of it their fault - yes, and I was part of it long enough to know that and don't need a guidebook on how we got here from you. Or point me to these fanthom posts about how I or others blame them for the weather - who's twisting there. Do I consider your posts apologist in nature - yes, and you are not alone ( which was my original point) - just as you view my words are somehow ALL condemning - the difference is I didn't go off on you. Next time you want to make it personal- have your facts straight please. thank you. You would like to say whatever you want and not be challenged - it doesn't work that way IMHO, on blue - green or polka dot. I guess you didn't see the portion in red that was highlighted. I'll make it glowing, so you can see it better. And that fact that you quoted me led me to believe you were addressing me. As for the blind devotion, I haven't heard one person on here say the SB is perfect. Everyone here has something they wish the SB could have done differently. You may just be coming back to green, so you might want to read through the other posts. Also, just because they've made some mistakes doesn't mean the need to be burned at the stake for it. They've also done a lot of good, but I don't see many from "your side" acknowledging that. It seems as if you and others just want to wallow in your own sorrows and re-live every horrible moment of the last 2 years and take others down with you. It's a choice you make. My "rant" comes from the repetitiveness of your posts. We get it. I'm begging you, move on, man. sorry, the situation doesn't change here does it ? Does that bus ride get shorter - no it gets longer over time. When you start saying people blame them for everything - I see specific items. Everybody gets to have an opinion on it - you have yours - and I have mine, and others have theirs. As far as 'my side' , yes we have to live with this situation forever - sorry it bothers you, but I don't believe that opinion is going to change any time soon here - When I see the good here as it affects our area - I will acknowledge it . I spent a lot of time complimenting things they did, it got me what ? and the nsfoc comment was uncalled for, but I notice you didn't address that... does being on a different board give you the privilege to make accusations ? I sure hope not, and in fact I know better.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 4, 2008 20:52:08 GMT -5
Yes we did have that wrong, but being told we could afford whatever came back helped many of us get to that point. Before the election was held they knew the range of where the price could come in, based on what BB was asking. A little honesty there to say, we can afford $350K - or no more than $400K would have gone a long way vs. we have a buffer put in to take care of that. I listened to those comments made in PTA meetings - maybe it was just overconfidence speaking, but people should have known the what if - and the back up plan. To not put that out there is why there are accused of hiding the facts... whether it was done on purpose or not hardly matters - it is what resulted. People voted on that overcinfidence- and yes, shame on us for doing so - hindsight is 20/20. I tried calling M2 on that very point ( and many others too...you know who you are... ). I thought I got an admission out of M2 (in a roundabout way) that over 400-450k/acre was too much.....but not to worry...it'll be much less than that! I know you tried to corner a number of things - at the time unfortunately I am some others weren't listening - or at least not closely enough
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 4, 2008 20:55:07 GMT -5
no one is twisting, and I never mentioned you. I said there is some blind devotion that they can do no wrong- your rant just proves my point-. btw - the assumption I am an nsfoc supporter is your assumption - and a bad one, but don't let that stop a good tirade. Also point me to a post where I said it is ALL their fault. Is a lot of it their fault - yes, and I was part of it long enough to know that and don't need a guidebook on how we got here from you. Or point me to these fanthom posts about how I or others blame them for the weather - who's twisting there. Do I consider your posts apologist in nature - yes, and you are not alone ( which was my original point) - just as you view my words are somehow ALL condemning - the difference is I didn't go off on you. Next time you want to make it personal- have your facts straight please. thank you. You would like to say whatever you want and not be challenged - it doesn't work that way IMHO, on blue - green or polka dot. I've avoided as much of these discussions as possible and I see why. I don't know how you get that eb204's post proves your point that there is blind devotion to the SB when you he/she indicates that the SB is not perfect and has made mistakes. And BTW, how does one define SB apologist? Is it somebody that refuses to attack them at every turn? I guess that's me too. I think they've made plenty of mistakes. But i don't feel the need to constantly rail against them. no it's someone that posts on both boards comments like " people are blaming them for the weather too -- I'm sorry I am still angry over the lot we drew, but it is what it is... I accept the fact that MV will be built at AME - have moved past BB - etc.- that does not mean I have to sit down and shut up and like the lot we drew- if that makes me someone who rails on them for everything ( seems like a few points to me) - then it is I who don't understand.
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