|
Post by Arch on Jun 16, 2008 23:57:49 GMT -5
Gingerwoods and Butterfield have had longer commutes to WV for ever - never heard anyone from there whine even once. Different strokes,... I suppose. Cheers. They were always assigned to the closest school and still are. Nothing to whine about there, but yet, now out of the woodwork people want to remind everyone that they had this god awful commute in the past and everyone else should hush up because it's somehow 'their turn' for the good of the rest. GW/Butterfield were never assigned to NV were they?
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 17, 2008 1:08:56 GMT -5
I think if Doc wanted MW to go to NV (the closest school) I would have to agree with you. Alas, he has not spouted that mantra. So how do you determine the difference between the two above...? "Well, he *might* have some benefit from it...." Is that the litmus test? If so, that would eliminate JC, CB, M2, CV, AT (closest assignments) and JS (switched from 3rd to 2nd closest) and even BG who is now (as the crow flies) closer to his HS tucked up in that NW corner of WE. Yikes. (typo fix) Interesting that you find WE going to WV as a "benefit" to that area. Based on postings on some of these forums, it seems that at least a few people from that area might disagree with you. Ask how many in WE would want to make the trek to MV instead of WV - for some in WE that commute is less than some in Watts - and they are west of 59. Some in WE are 2 miles further south than us - but they are also 2 miles further west also- similar commute it would be. I don't remember a single WE poster saying they prefered MV @ AME to WV - but I could have missed the post. viewing things as a benefit or not is all relative compared to the options. Yes, some prefered to stay at NV, some wanted BB because it was close, but no one asked for the longest commute they could get either.
|
|
player
Master Member
Posts: 188
|
Post by player on Jun 17, 2008 5:43:14 GMT -5
Gingerwoods and Butterfield have had longer commutes to WV for ever - never heard anyone from there whine even once. Different strokes,... I suppose. Cheers. They were always assigned to the closest school and still are. Nothing to whine about there, but yet, now out of the woodwork people want to remind everyone that they had this god awful commute in the past and everyone else should hush up because it's somehow 'their turn' for the good of the rest. GW/Butterfield were never assigned to NV were they? Well.. I rest my case then! This is all about boundaries, isn't it? Because you feel that you shouldn't have to commute this far. So drop this whole facade of how this is supposed to save money, and how you are undertaking this effort as a watchdog to help the District, when in fact thats not the intent. By all means support a candidate whose campaign promise is to change boundaries. I respect someone who means what they say and says what they mean - even if I don't support their stance. Why pretend that this whole route optimization for cost is something other that a transparent boundary hanging exercise? Just be upfront about it! Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by warriorpride on Jun 17, 2008 5:46:41 GMT -5
Interesting that you find WE going to WV as a "benefit" to that area. Based on postings on some of these forums, it seems that at least a few people from that area might disagree with you. Ask how many in WE would want to make the trek to MV instead of WV - for some in WE that commute is less than some in Watts - and they are west of 59. Some in WE are 2 miles further south than us - but they are also 2 miles further west also- similar commute it would be. I don't remember a single WE poster saying they prefered MV @ AME to WV - but I could have missed the post. viewing things as a benefit or not is all relative compared to the options. Yes, some prefered to stay at NV, some wanted BB because it was close, but no one asked for the longest commute they could get either. Sorry - I see it differently - I don't see it as the "farthest 204 HS" or the "11th farthest HS" for MW - I see is as an extra 1.5 miles, of which, the longest total distance (a little more than 6 miles) is fairly comparable to other area HSs.
|
|
|
Post by WeNeed3 on Jun 17, 2008 8:24:08 GMT -5
I don't want this to sound argumentative, but it amazes me that people I know drive 30 to 45 minutes one way several times a week to take their kids to sports practices. Not to mention out of state for travelling soccer or whatever. Yet others complain about their drive to school lengthening by a few miles and no mention about how the schools will be less crowded etc. Sometimes we do things for our kids even though we don't like it. And yes, it sucks, but the overall benefit has to be outweighed by the negative distance. I'm sorry everyone can't have a shorter commute. It would make life easier. But this is Naperville. Distances are measured in minutes, not miles. If you don't like the traffic, maybe you need to consider a move to South Dakota.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 17, 2008 8:31:13 GMT -5
They were always assigned to the closest school and still are. Nothing to whine about there, but yet, now out of the woodwork people want to remind everyone that they had this god awful commute in the past and everyone else should hush up because it's somehow 'their turn' for the good of the rest. GW/Butterfield were never assigned to NV were they? Well.. I rest my case then! This is all about boundaries, isn't it? Because you feel that you shouldn't have to commute this far. So drop this whole facade of how this is supposed to save money, and how you are undertaking this effort as a watchdog to help the District, when in fact thats not the intent. By all means support a candidate whose campaign promise is to change boundaries. I respect someone who means what they say and says what they mean - even if I don't support their stance. Why pretend that this whole route optimization for cost is something other that a transparent boundary hanging exercise? Just be upfront about it! Cheers. For many it is on both sides of the fence. Put the school at AME and send Brooks, Young, Longwood and Stonebridge back to WV and see the response you get. Transporting cargo (kids) farther than one needs to costs more money. Drive 6 miles two times a day for a year then figure out your costs then drive 4 miles two times a day for a year and figure out your cost. Tell me which is cheaper. Does the 4 mile path save you money? I would venture a guess that it does. That's 720 mile a school year difference on just 1 route. Money ties directly to boundaries no matter how many times you think it does not. Tell us about the same cost of the contract all you want, but if we can pull in the route/miles I have a feeling we can get the ongoing year after year price down because those are specific costs to First Student and if we reduce their costs, a good negotiator can get those savings past on to us. The two are not mutually exclusive (boundaries and transportation costs), they are tied DIRECTLY TOGETHER.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 17, 2008 8:34:49 GMT -5
I don't want this to sound argumentative, but it amazes me that people I know drive 30 to 45 minutes one way several times a week to take their kids to sports practices. Not to mention out of state for travelling soccer or whatever. Yet others complain about their drive to school lengthening by a few miles and no mention about how the schools will be less crowded etc. Sometimes we do things for our kids even though we don't like it. And yes, it sucks, but the overall benefit has to be outweighed by the negative distance. I'm sorry everyone can't have a shorter commute. It would make life easier. But this is Naperville. Distances are measured in minutes, not miles. If you don't like the traffic, maybe you need to consider a move to South Dakota. Not everyone does club sports. Everyone has taken the blind faith that it's the best it can get and it can't possibly be made better. Some disagree with you and since there is still well over a year until it opens, there is plenty of time to comb back over it to make sure it's right. 'Freezing the board' because someone likes their assignment and is afraid to lose it is just.. .well, I won't even say it. Promising your kids they are going some place before it's even built is like promising them they are going some place before we even own the land. Many said over and over, it's the kids who take it the easiest... More distance = more money. Plain and simple.
|
|
|
Post by justvote on Jun 17, 2008 8:41:56 GMT -5
Your Emperor is wearing no clothes, Dr. Who. You don't fool me one bit. I would oppose anyone running on that platform, regardless of the area they come from. But, really, its people who think like you that I oppose - who couch a self-serving political agenda under a seemingly altruistic veil of district welfare. And I will do my level best to stop such people from getting into political office. I want to elect people who care about the putting the welfare of the District first, not themselves. Cheers. I think if Doc wanted MW to go to NV (the closest school) I would have to agree with you. Alas, he has not spouted that mantra. So how do you determine the difference between the two above...? "Well, he *might* have some benefit from it...." Is that the litmus test? If so, that would eliminate JC, CB, M2, CV, AT (closest assignments) and JS (switched from 3rd to 2nd closest) and even BG who is now (as the crow flies) closer to his HS tucked up in that NW corner of WE. Yikes. (typo fix) I haven't read this entire thread, so if this has been addressed I apologize for being redundant, but BG does not live on the NW side of WE. He's actually pretty far east towards rte. 59 and more central (not north). Not that it really matters, but his closest high school is NV
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 17, 2008 8:46:19 GMT -5
I think if Doc wanted MW to go to NV (the closest school) I would have to agree with you. Alas, he has not spouted that mantra. So how do you determine the difference between the two above...? "Well, he *might* have some benefit from it...." Is that the litmus test? If so, that would eliminate JC, CB, M2, CV, AT (closest assignments) and JS (switched from 3rd to 2nd closest) and even BG who is now (as the crow flies) closer to his HS tucked up in that NW corner of WE. Yikes. (typo fix) I haven't read this entire thread, so if this has been addressed I apologize for being redundant, but BG does not live on the NW side of WE. He's actually pretty far east towards rte. 59 and more central (not north). Not that it really matters, but his closest high school is NV I never bothered to look his place up and only relayed what I read. Thanks for the clarification; I'll note that going forward.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 17, 2008 9:12:37 GMT -5
I don't want this to sound argumentative, but it amazes me that people I know drive 30 to 45 minutes one way several times a week to take their kids to sports practices. Not to mention out of state for travelling soccer or whatever. Yet others complain about their drive to school lengthening by a few miles and no mention about how the schools will be less crowded etc. Sometimes we do things for our kids even though we don't like it. And yes, it sucks, but the overall benefit has to be outweighed by the negative distance. I'm sorry everyone can't have a shorter commute. It would make life easier. But this is Naperville. Distances are measured in minutes, not miles. If you don't like the traffic, maybe you need to consider a move to South Dakota. Ah, the 'love it or leave it defense' - I knew it would appear after the sit down and shut up directions. How original. Jusr because you don't give a rat's backside about our commute, doesn't mean we will do likewise. Hey if you want less crowded schools- I'll bet they have them in South Dakota also. We spent $150 M to lengthen the commutes of entire ES's - if that makes sense to you, more power to ya... as I have said often- it is not the miles , it is the time from where we are- the time travel triples.....did yours ? I think not. So excuse me if I don't take you up on your generous offer to move to South Dakota -- geez
|
|
|
Post by sardines on Jun 17, 2008 9:12:38 GMT -5
Well.. I rest my case then! This is all about boundaries, isn't it? Because you feel that you shouldn't have to commute this far. So drop this whole facade of how this is supposed to save money, and how you are undertaking this effort as a watchdog to help the District, when in fact thats not the intent. By all means support a candidate whose campaign promise is to change boundaries. I respect someone who means what they say and says what they mean - even if I don't support their stance. Why pretend that this whole route optimization for cost is something other that a transparent boundary hanging exercise? Just be upfront about it! Cheers. For many it is on both sides of the fence. Put the school at AME and send Brooks, Young, Longwood and Stonebridge back to WV and see the response you get. Transporting cargo (kids) farther than one needs to costs more money. Drive 6 miles two times a day for a year then figure out your costs then drive 4 miles two times a day for a year and figure out your cost. Tell me which is cheaper. Does the 4 mile path save you money? I would venture a guess that it does. That's 720 mile a school year difference on just 1 route. Money ties directly to boundaries no matter how many times you think it does not. Tell us about the same cost of the contract all you want, but if we can pull in the route/miles I have a feeling we can get the ongoing year after year price down because those are specific costs to First Student and if we reduce their costs, a good negotiator can get those savings past on to us. The two are not mutually exclusive (boundaries and transportation costs), they are tied DIRECTLY TOGETHER. I actually would be more than fine (which is why I voted yes when it appeared MV would be at BB) continuing to transport my younger kids to WV. We live in SB. We love WV. We drive all over Kingdom Come for sports,etc. Five or six mile drives are a bargain to me. Somebody is going to have to drive further than somebody else. I honestly would volunteer if given the option. It would be easier to keep all my kids at one school anyway. I would even drive to NV if deemed necessary. Heck, it's no different than Benet which has always been an option to my kids if they so choose. I have always felt that smaller schools are worth the further drive. I know others feel differently. I do understand why some folks are upset about the drive but I still can't figure out why the Watts area isn't 203. It doesn't make sense to me because I don't think they are remotely convenient to ANY 204 HS.
|
|
|
Post by warriorpride on Jun 17, 2008 9:14:40 GMT -5
Well.. I rest my case then! This is all about boundaries, isn't it? Because you feel that you shouldn't have to commute this far. So drop this whole facade of how this is supposed to save money, and how you are undertaking this effort as a watchdog to help the District, when in fact thats not the intent. By all means support a candidate whose campaign promise is to change boundaries. I respect someone who means what they say and says what they mean - even if I don't support their stance. Why pretend that this whole route optimization for cost is something other that a transparent boundary hanging exercise? Just be upfront about it! Cheers. For many it is on both sides of the fence. Put the school at AME and send Brooks, Young, Longwood and Stonebridge back to WV and see the response you get. Transporting cargo (kids) farther than one needs to costs more money. Drive 6 miles two times a day for a year then figure out your costs then drive 4 miles two times a day for a year and figure out your cost. Tell me which is cheaper. Does the 4 mile path save you money? I would venture a guess that it does. That's 720 mile a school year difference on just 1 route. Money ties directly to boundaries no matter how many times you think it does not. Tell us about the same cost of the contract all you want, but if we can pull in the route/miles I have a feeling we can get the ongoing year after year price down because those are specific costs to First Student and if we reduce their costs, a good negotiator can get those savings past on to us. The two are not mutually exclusive (boundaries and transportation costs), they are tied DIRECTLY TOGETHER. Arch, good luck on your quest to get the boundaries changed in what you believe to be your areas benefit, based on what you think could be reduced bus routes and/or cost, despite the fact that you acknowledge that bus routes/cost is only one of a number of criteria that goes into selecting boundaries. You have an uphill battle, and I don't think that you're going to get much support from many residents or SB members. If you manage to affect change, then it sounds like some people in your area would be happy. I just wonder what other areas would get affected by your proposed changes & how they would feel. You've acknowledged that now is a bad time to revisit boundaries, but you keep talking about revisiting boundaries. I don't get it. The boundaries discussion seems to keep going in a loop, so any response that you see from me may seem similar to my previous responses. You've stated your platform a number of times here. If you have something new to add to the discussions, great, but, please, let's not filibuster on your desire to change boundaries.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 17, 2008 9:16:45 GMT -5
Ask how many in WE would want to make the trek to MV instead of WV - for some in WE that commute is less than some in Watts - and they are west of 59. Some in WE are 2 miles further south than us - but they are also 2 miles further west also- similar commute it would be. I don't remember a single WE poster saying they prefered MV @ AME to WV - but I could have missed the post. viewing things as a benefit or not is all relative compared to the options. Yes, some prefered to stay at NV, some wanted BB because it was close, but no one asked for the longest commute they could get either. Sorry - I see it differently - I don't see it as the "farthest 204 HS" or the "11th farthest HS" for MW - I see is as an extra 1.5 miles, of which, the longest total distance (a little more than 6 miles) is fairly comparable to other area HSs. again for the 200th time-- the travel time changes from 10 minutes to 25-30 minutes in rush hour ( by car) - difference between WVHS - 5 lights up 75th and MV ( crossing/on 5 major streets) -- so people can trot out all the google maps ( and it is still 7.2 miles from my house - offer still stands for a drive along)- they want - that is unaccpetable. people who wouldn't have to do it always see it differently.
|
|
|
Post by gatormom on Jun 17, 2008 9:21:35 GMT -5
Dr. Who, Arch, we get it. You are not happy with your commute, yep heard it. Heard it a lot. In fact I have heard it so often that constant grind of your complaints is doing much to erode any sympathy I have for your particular situation.
Do you understand that with the constant drone of your complaints, people are just shaking their heads and turning away? Where you once had sympathy, it has begun to take on a strange life of its own and really getting to a point of senseless noise that nobody wants to hear any more.
You are bringing this on yourself. Not sure if anything can be done to help you and while I sense you are aware of that, you continue. I really don't know what to say anymore except, sorry. I really am.
ETA: If this thread continues to rehash and nothing new is added, I will be forced to lock it.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 17, 2008 9:23:04 GMT -5
For many it is on both sides of the fence. Put the school at AME and send Brooks, Young, Longwood and Stonebridge back to WV and see the response you get. Transporting cargo (kids) farther than one needs to costs more money. Drive 6 miles two times a day for a year then figure out your costs then drive 4 miles two times a day for a year and figure out your cost. Tell me which is cheaper. Does the 4 mile path save you money? I would venture a guess that it does. That's 720 mile a school year difference on just 1 route. Money ties directly to boundaries no matter how many times you think it does not. Tell us about the same cost of the contract all you want, but if we can pull in the route/miles I have a feeling we can get the ongoing year after year price down because those are specific costs to First Student and if we reduce their costs, a good negotiator can get those savings past on to us. The two are not mutually exclusive (boundaries and transportation costs), they are tied DIRECTLY TOGETHER. I actually would be more than fine (which is why I voted yes when it appeared MV would be at BB) continuing to transport my younger kids to WV. We live in SB. We love WV. We drive all over Kingdom Come for sports,etc. Five or six mile drives are a bargain to me. Somebody is going to have to drive further than somebody else. I honestly would volunteer if given the option. It would be easier to keep all my kids at one school anyway. I would even drive to NV if deemed necessary. Heck, it's no different than Benet which has always been an option to my kids if they so choose. I have always felt that smaller schools are worth the further drive. I know others feel differently. I do understand why some folks are upset about the drive but I still can't figure out why the Watts area isn't 203. It doesn't make sense to me because I don't think they are remotely convenient to ANY 204 HS. Yes we are on top of ( walkers) to Naperville Central ( and the boundary line for 203 is < 200 feet from my house )- but those tax jurisdictions were drawn up long before most of us we in our homes - they will not change. I am an 8 minute drive ( 4 miles) to NV ( on cross one major street 75th) - , a 10 minute drive to WVHS (5 miles) ( cross 59 but it is 50 mph most of the way there) - and 25+ minutes (7 miles) to MV ( crossing 59, aurora , north aurora, ogden and ending up on eola ) that's what makes NO sense. I am 4.2 miles, but more importantly - 11-12 minutes from Benet so yes I am taking that option. Hell - Wheaton Warrenville HS is closer to my home by over a 1/2 mile
|
|