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Post by asmodeus on May 23, 2008 9:54:32 GMT -5
I only meant that seniors could possibly be persuaded by admins to take tests with the assurance that the results wouldn't hurt them. If the admins were on a campaign to just get as many tests taken as possible to boost their Newsweek ranking, this would be a way to reduce that incentive.
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Post by gatormom on May 23, 2008 10:13:07 GMT -5
I only meant that seniors could possibly be persuaded by admins to take tests with the assurance that the results wouldn't hurt them. If the admins were on a campaign to just get as many tests taken as possible to boost their Newsweek ranking, this would be a way to reduce that incentive. I doubt the schools are encouraging these tests to boost their Newsweek ranking. There seems to be some thought and research into why schools are in fact encouraging more students to take AP classes as well as the tests.
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Post by gatordog on May 23, 2008 10:17:57 GMT -5
Are AP courses universally accepted for credit at all universities? (My understanding is, no. But I dont know)
If for example, students are shooting for Ivy League type schools and these DONT recognize AP courses, would these students be discouraged from putting in the extra effort for these classes as HS seniors when they know they are going to have to repeat them at the college level?
Also, I understand a big aspect of AP is tuition-savings at college level. What if tuition-savings is not an issue and the family has plenty of money to pay for college? (oh to be in such a financial position!)
Could these be factors that "discourage" AP classes at a place such as, for example New Trier HS?
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Post by gatordog on May 23, 2008 10:22:25 GMT -5
"The list measures not test scores -- which is actually a measure of parental income, and not to my mind a good way to measure schools even though that remains the most popular measure," Mathews wrote in an e-mail interview Thursday. "It measures AP test participation, which is a measure of which schools have teachers and administrators who are trying hard to get more kids into challenging courses and raising their level." Thanks for posting this very interesting followup article. Of course school performance is a hard thing to measure....but the statement highlighted above is a nice summary of what I want our HS to do. I think I agree that looking at the AP courses is a decent way to judge this hard-to-quantify thing of schools "giving the students a challenge and raising their level." Hurray for any and all schools doing that. That is EXACTLY what you shoud be doing!
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Post by capecod on May 23, 2008 16:11:36 GMT -5
Let's see...Neuqua, NN, NC, and even New Trier did not make the list of America's "Top 1300" schools. That alone should make one question the validity of the list. Wrong! Neuqua made the list. Newsweek made a mistake and they are updating their list after the holiday weekend. Great job for BOTH schools.
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Post by capecod on May 23, 2008 16:17:29 GMT -5
New: Oops! Neuqua on Newsweek list, as well
May 23, 2008Recommend
Sun staff Indian Prairie School District 204 officials said they were proud when Waubonsie Valley High School made a Newsweek list of the nation’s best public high schools, but puzzled as to why Neuqua Valley High School didn’t make the list as well.
Turns out, Newsweek goofed. Neuqua should have been on the list, too, District 204 officials said Friday.
Superintendent Stephen Daeschner said he was glad to see Newsweek recognize Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley again this year.
"We are very proud of both of our high schools," Daeschner said in an e-mail sent to the District 204 community Friday afternoon. "Having both our schools make this list is a nice affirmation of the work being done to best prepare our students for college."
The district’s e-mail said Newsweek would update its list after the Memorial Day holiday. It did not indicate where Neuqua would be ranked.
Newsweek magazine Monday released its annual list of 1,300 top U.S. high schools list, based on a formula that divides the number of students taking Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate tests by the number of graduating seniors.
Waubonsie was No. 1,079 on the 2008 list, up from 1,252 last year. Neuqua ranked No. 607 on the 2007 list.
District 204 offers students 27 different AP courses. District-wide, more than 2,350 AP tests were taken in 2007. That number is expected to grow next year as the district anticipates a 37 percent enrollment increase in AP courses, the district said in the e-mail.
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Post by rural on May 23, 2008 16:28:55 GMT -5
Newsweek's website stated that the list would be revised as more information came in from other schools. Some principals were late with their homework.
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Post by momto4 on May 24, 2008 9:25:26 GMT -5
Are AP courses universally accepted for credit at all universities? (My understanding is, no. But I dont know) If for example, students are shooting for Ivy League type schools and these DONT recognize AP courses, would these students be discouraged from putting in the extra effort for these classes as HS seniors when they know they are going to have to repeat them at the college level? Also, I understand a big aspect of AP is tuition-savings at college level. What if tuition-savings is not an issue and the family has plenty of money to pay for college? (oh to be in such a financial position!) No, not all colleges or universities accept them for credit. Here is an example of the way one of our local schools, North Central College, handles AP results. www.northcentralcollege.edu/x4949.xmlI would think taking the AP courses would look good on a transcript but that taking the test is only worthwhile if there might be some benefit to doing well on it.
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Post by wvhsparent on May 25, 2008 9:29:26 GMT -5
Neuqua, D203 schools should also be on Newsweek list
May 25, 2008
Sun staff Indian Prairie School District 204 officials said they were proud when Waubonsie Valley High School made a Newsweek list of the nation's best public high schools, but puzzled as to why Neuqua Valley High School didn't make the list as well.
Turns out, Newsweek goofed. Neuqua should have been on the list, too, District 204 officials said Friday. And Naperville North and Central high schools should have been as well, School District 203 officials said.
Superintendent Stephen Daeschner said he was glad to see Newsweek recognize Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley again this year.
"We are very proud of both of our high schools," Daeschner said in an e-mail sent to the District 204 community Friday afternoon. "Having both our schools make this list is a nice affirmation of the work being done to best prepare our students for college."
The district's e-mail said Newsweek would update its list after the Memorial Day holiday. It did not indicate where Neuqua would be ranked.
In an e-mail Friday, District 203 said Superintendent Alan Leis contacted Jay Matthews, of the Washington Post, who compiles the list each year. District 203 said Matthews agreed that, based on Advanced Placement and other data, both NCHS and NNHS should have been included and would be when the list was updated.
"Any ranking system is simply one measure of student achievement," Leis said in the e-mail. "Still, our students' high scores in the AP testing program, combined with the number of students that are stepping up to this challenge, is something about which we are very proud. Both of our high schools deserve the distinction of being named to this highly selective list."
Newsweek Monday released its annual list of 1,300 top U.S. high schools, based on a formula that divides the number of students taking Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate tests by the number of graduating seniors.
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Post by gatormom on May 25, 2008 10:01:10 GMT -5
What a relief, the good schools made the list, now maybe it is not so bogus. I found this discussion pretty disturbing until we started to look at the methods used to rank schools. I almost wish Neuqua and the 203 schools hadn't made it. At least people were being forced to look at the snapshot method any ranking system uses as a completely inaccurate picture of a high school's success. Oh well, congrats to all the schools that made the list. It is a credit to any school that challenges its students.
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Post by WeNeed3 on May 25, 2008 10:09:36 GMT -5
I agree GM. It irks me that some people think that since the other three "good" schools didn't make it initially, the test is not valid/flawed etc.
I think ranking anything is silly. IMO student rankings should be done away with like in d203. And the top city rankings....it's all in whatever criteria they choose to use. Take it for what it's worth. I don't need Newsweek to tell me we have great schools in d204.
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Post by asmodeus on May 25, 2008 10:50:37 GMT -5
It irks you that some people think logically --not just emotionally-- and wonder why Waubonsie, which is a fine school but not an elite one, would perform better than New Trier? Wouldn't you wonder what the metric was and whether it was valid? If the metric was the number of students enrolled in French, would everyone still be defending WV?
Hey, I'm all for debating the validity of the measuring technique, and I have an open mind about it. But it is equally "irksome" to read people's knee-jerk reactions in blindly defending particular schools or 204 in general.
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Post by gatormom on May 25, 2008 11:44:42 GMT -5
Hey, I'm all for debating the validity of the measuring technique, and I have an open mind about it. But it is equally "irksome" to read people's knee-jerk reactions in blindly defending particular schools or 204 in general. The point is that the list is bogus. Yeah, real open-minded. FWIW, I have never blindly defended WV, my defense of WV comes from personal experience, I have a graduate of WV. My point is, any ranking system used is a mere snap-shot of a school and not the whole picture. If more people understood that, there would be less concerns about Waubonsie being lesser or equal to Neuqua. As for New Trier, they don't need any lists to prove themselves. They are a great school. Of course, New Trier really does spend a lot per student, double what D204 does. Per the 2007 school report cards, New Trier spends $9757 to educate one student, D204 spends $5653 to educate one student. Oh, the operating expenses for New Trier are also double D204s, $16,856 for New Trier and D204 $8639.
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Post by asmodeus on May 25, 2008 12:46:40 GMT -5
I agree 100%.
But the problem is trying to figure out what exactly makes a good, great (or bad) school. As you pointed out, D204 doesn't spend more than average on its students. As Mathews argues in Newsweek, ACT scores are (in his opinion) a function of parental income. I keep hearing how D204 has great schools, which may be true, but what exactly makes them great? Do we defend them just so we can feel good about where we live and where we send our kids? Forget about New Trier for a moment. What makes D204 better than schools in Elmhurst, Glenview, Glen Ellyn, Park Ridge, Oak Park, etc.?
I tend to think that the quality of the school system is simply a function of the quality of the parents of the students. In D204 do we have a high proportion of two-parent, fairly affluent families? Yes. Is this the reason our schools have a good reputation? In my mind, yes. There is nothing particularly magical about the teachers or administrators compared to other districts with similar demographics.
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Post by gatormom on May 25, 2008 16:46:14 GMT -5
I don't know. Are D204 schools better than those schools?
I don't understand this. Are D204 schools better because 2-parent, fairly affluent families talk the schools up more or because their kids are better students? Would a high proportion of 1-parent, fairly affluent families be good too. What about 2-parent, not so affluent but not so poor families?
I always thought our schools are good because of what our children are exposed to once they walk through the doors, you know the education part. I understand that those with less than ideal home situations are far more difficult to educate but I also have seen our district come a long way with those students even though they number in the minority.
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