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Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 15:19:47 GMT -5
What's there to be upset about making a quick run up Eola to a shiny new school for Steck and McCarty? It's far closer and by many people's assertions, they should be happy and thrilled about it. The SB president sending his area there would be the right thing to do, IMO. I'm pretty sure MM is in the 10% (or whatever) that are actually true walkers to WV that also attend Steck. Yes, that was what I believed as well. The cost differences would still be nice to see, since we are paying by the bus mile, and double the bus miles on the longest routes in the district is not a great thing to have if absorbing the cost of shorter miles (for those 2nd buses) is a viable alternative that saves us money. I'm w/ WP.. the heck w/ splits at the MS level. Save the district some scratch on the bus miles if it works out that way.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 15:26:40 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. I don't see any issue with MS splits ( I don't like the one that was proposed for Hill before with 3 and 1 - I agree) - and as far as ES splt - yes I agree that 's not a good thing, however Watts does have 3 sattelites now ( including a new one at 59 and North Aurora just added ) - maybe a fairer question would be to ask those people if they view putting theie K child on a bus for 5+ miles to another area as something they like. It's sort of a split in reverse. The MS split not that big a deal here are Cowlishaw and Watts are contiguous, but Brookdale and Longwood are good distances away from here- with a large stretch of 203 in between. It would mean more to me to be tied to Owen East ( in MS or HS) - who is right next door and attended Watts and Hill with us before. Just IMHO. At 4.96 miles, this is what Owen West does every day. It's just under 5 miles, so maybe it doesn't count.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 15:29:22 GMT -5
So are many who have it in their back yard, and in fact, I would bet dollars to donuts those closer have a higher percentage of their neighborhood who are happy with it than those neighborhoods who have the shiny new HS be the farthest from them. I'll gladly give up the non-splits and the shiny new HS in a heartbeat. Give it to someone closer who will appreciate it more, please. I won't argue with you - and I think that you and DrW have clearly established what your feelings on this are, but I was specifically pointing out what some in MW might view as a positive. We don't seem to have anyone on thie forum from MW that's ok with how things are, but I happen to know some people in MW that are OK with the way things shook out - so I hope that you and Dr can acknowledge that your feelings and opinions are not shared across the entire MW area. And I've met some as well. My boss lives in the MW attendance area and she says that none of her neighbors have a problem with it and are, indeed, excited about it.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 15:31:59 GMT -5
I know he voted yes, so again poor choice of words from me -- I know he would always have preferred anothe site - sorry for any mis statement... ya got me confused with someone else, sir - I vote yes in 05, would have voted yes in 06 regardless of boundaries - thought BB was the best location - when the jury price came out, I supported trying to figure out how to stay at BB - then when the SB started looking for other options, I supported them - I would have been angry if Macom were selected, but I think I would have gotten over it, as the key to me was getting MV opened in 09. All I ever asked for was some balance across the schools and I am satisfied with what was selected for BB and I am satisfied with the MV boundaries, from that perspective. I will not have it easy, if you will, as I will have a child in MV and a child in WV for 2009-2010 AND 2010-2011. There are others in my shoes, too. It will stink. And, obviously, my youngest will have the fortune to open a new school, with no established programs, or extracurriculars - I've heard it's not easy opening a new school. I'm ok with it, though. I stand corrected - duly noted- obviously it is my memory at fault. ( maybe it was macom I remembred) No harm meant.
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Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 15:32:46 GMT -5
I won't argue with you - and I think that you and DrW have clearly established what your feelings on this are, but I was specifically pointing out what some in MW might view as a positive. We don't seem to have anyone on thie forum from MW that's ok with how things are, but I happen to know some people in MW that are OK with the way things shook out - so I hope that you and Dr can acknowledge that your feelings and opinions are not shared across the entire MW area. And I've met some as well. My boss lives in the MW attendance area and she says that none of her neighbors have a problem with it and are, indeed, excited about it. Out of curiosity, what age(s) are their kids?
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 15:37:53 GMT -5
I don't see any issue with MS splits ( I don't like the one that was proposed for Hill before with 3 and 1 - I agree) - and as far as ES splt - yes I agree that 's not a good thing, however Watts does have 3 sattelites now ( including a new one at 59 and North Aurora just added ) - maybe a fairer question would be to ask those people if they view putting theie K child on a bus for 5+ miles to another area as something they like. It's sort of a split in reverse. The MS split not that big a deal here are Cowlishaw and Watts are contiguous, but Brookdale and Longwood are good distances away from here- with a large stretch of 203 in between. It would mean more to me to be tied to Owen East ( in MS or HS) - who is right next door and attended Watts and Hill with us before. Just IMHO. At 4.96 miles, this is what Owen West does every day. It's just under 5 miles, so maybe it doesn't count. Yet again, just because I do not quote Owen' s issues in every post does not mean they don't count. I don't try and speak for areas I am not well versed in - so I don't misspeak. So please stop trying to portray that I do not think what any one else does doesn't matter. I am aware of the new area being sent to Watts - just because someone else does it sure as heck doesn not make it optimal does it ? We head to Hill every day also - others likely have some bad commutes- they ALL matter - but adding thios much capacity should have helped correct things at the HS level- yet they will be worse than today for more people. I think ES school boundaries could have been addressed more ( as I understood they would be) to make sure no one has to travel that far due to boundaries in many times set before housing was in certain areas. Adding yet another set of kids to that just seemed wrong.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 15:39:27 GMT -5
WP always supported BB and in fact felt it was the better location for Metea. He has been supportive of Metea for a very long time, not just because the location changed. ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=ame&action=display&thread=717&page=2warriorpride -- Re: Scenarios « Reply #21 on Jan 2, 2008, 10:31pm » Well, I'm not going to pretend to be 100% altruistic - I am willing to admit I want something (not a lot, but something) out of the deal. I want what's best for my kids, which is what I think most want. I don't see how the kids in 204 are going to be severely damaged, no matter what site is selected.
Nothing wrong with that, or others wanting something out of it too that doesn't amount to being sent to the 3rd farthest MS and now the 3rd farthest HS, not to mention the concern many still have about the p!pelines. And some of us are being sent to the 7th farthest ES and the 3rd farthest HS and yet are not complaining about either.
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Arwen
Master Member
Posts: 933
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Post by Arwen on Jun 5, 2008 15:39:43 GMT -5
I have talked to a few MW moms of young children at activities recently who are not upset about it either. I am not implying that there aren't many people who are upset, but perhaps those without such history with WV are more accepting of the change than those that have that history. (BTW, I've not yet met a Cowlishaw parent. Do we have any here? Never hear much from that area.)
I honestly don't think the SB will be willing to revisit this for any ES area unless there is a huge population change (like Macom being built up). I can see some advantages behind a swap of Steck with whichever attendance area is of similar size and farthest away, especially if Steck could stay at Granger. The most upset I've heard from Steck is about the MS switch, so maybe that could work out happily somehow. Even that 1 case though will open up a whole can of worms that has been horrible for the SB twice already. They would be idiots to bring that on themselves for a third time.
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Post by gatordog on Jun 5, 2008 15:40:55 GMT -5
I've never witnessed you throwing in the towel on boundaries or number crunching before. In fact, I was always impressed with how you could shuffle them around and come up with really cool ideas from what appeared to be left field. I appreciate your kind thoughts here. Truth is though, I thought a lot about this literally from approx Jan 2007 until Jan 2008. I dont think I have gotten any smarter, nor do I feel any more creative. All I can say is....I tried! The best thing I can say I learned is... I can completely say that I fully appreciate the depth and difficulty of the problem before the admin and SB in setting boundaries. I can see reasons why they did what they did.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 15:40:55 GMT -5
Figure out the cost $$ difference. Does sending them up the road where they are walkers now cost more or less than running double busses from both Cowlishaw and Watts areas all the way to MV ? Let the numbers speak for themselves. Many of us have asked the administration for the routes and costs, but have never been given byte one about it. I am not doing the calculation. Again, the burden of proof in my mind and for the district I am sure, is: does somebody have a "better" boundary plan? Since in my mind, such a plan clearly is not better (violates criteria!) , I wont be wasting my time doing any such calculations. Arch, how can you seriously talk about optimizing one and only one criteria (transportation costs...MAYBE, you think ) at the expense of all other criteria? We are talking about multiple criteria here. Not just the ones you or I or anybody deem important to them. I think they are multiple issues associated with the commute - of which travel costs are but 1 outgrowth. ( an important one with the rising cost of fuel) the time kids spend on a bus every day / the safety of longer commutes for teenagers ( when driving) / the effect on volunteerism tripling the commute time for parents at the end of the work day to get to HS to help out or see games / keeping ES's with those that have contiguous boundaries ( for us Owen East) - all are part of the same issue.
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Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 15:43:41 GMT -5
ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=ame&action=display&thread=717&page=2warriorpride -- Re: Scenarios « Reply #21 on Jan 2, 2008, 10:31pm » Well, I'm not going to pretend to be 100% altruistic - I am willing to admit I want something (not a lot, but something) out of the deal. I want what's best for my kids, which is what I think most want. I don't see how the kids in 204 are going to be severely damaged, no matter what site is selected.
Nothing wrong with that, or others wanting something out of it too that doesn't amount to being sent to the 3rd farthest MS and now the 3rd farthest HS, not to mention the concern many still have about the p!pelines. And some of us are being sent to the 7th farthest ES and the 3rd farthest HS and yet are not complaining about either. I tip my hat - that is your call. Personally I think something else should be adjusted to address that..
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Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 15:46:07 GMT -5
I have talked to a few MW moms of young children at activities recently who are not upset about it either. I am not implying that there aren't many people who are upset, but perhaps those without such history with WV are more accepting of the change than those that have that history. (BTW, I've not yet met a Cowlishaw parent. Do we have any here? Never hear much from that area.) I honestly don't think the SB will be willing to revisit this for any ES area unless there is a huge population change (like Macom being built up). I can see some advantages behind a swap of Steck with whichever attendance area is of similar size and farthest away, especially if Steck could stay at Granger. The most upset I've heard from Steck is about the MS switch, so maybe that could work out happily somehow. Even that 1 case though will open up a whole can of worms that has been horrible for the SB twice already. They would be idiots to bring that on themselves for a third time. The Cowlishaw parents that I know through ballet w/ our daughters want WV.
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Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 15:47:23 GMT -5
ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=ame&action=display&thread=717&page=2warriorpride -- Re: Scenarios « Reply #21 on Jan 2, 2008, 10:31pm » Well, I'm not going to pretend to be 100% altruistic - I am willing to admit I want something (not a lot, but something) out of the deal. I want what's best for my kids, which is what I think most want. I don't see how the kids in 204 are going to be severely damaged, no matter what site is selected.
Nothing wrong with that, or others wanting something out of it too that doesn't amount to being sent to the 3rd farthest MS and now the 3rd farthest HS, not to mention the concern many still have about the p!pelines. And some of us are being sent to the 7th farthest ES and the 3rd farthest HS and yet are not complaining about either. In the new scheme of things, it would be right if your area would go to a closer ES and a closer MS and WV. I think your area has been screwed over in that regards for too long.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 15:59:51 GMT -5
Thanks for your honesty and no, that doesn't make you a bad person any more than those who voted no (for whatever reason) for the referendum are bad people. Honestly, if we can't move beyond what happened in 2006, how are we ever going to move past the things that have happened this year. I am in agreement, however getting tired of being bashed for having my opinion about the site - the commute and how we got here. And that is not pointing the finger at you. It just seems like right now one can't voice an opinion that is not pro AME-MV site without being called a foc'r ( and worse) - and treated like some kind of pariah. How is that going to heal anything ? I didn't sure the district ( although I understand where some felt they should) - yet get called a supporter , I want a decent commute and some tell me I am just selfish, I want as safe a site as possible ( and am happy MWGEN land not being used) - and get painted as an obstructionist-- really people, I want the same thing most people want, the best situation for their child and their neighborhood If my area - Watts- would have been told - no you aren't going to WVHS ( and for those who think they know my area better than I do after 20 years - you under estimate the tie to that school here emotionally) - and you aren't going to the closest school (NV) - you are being placed at MV - close to the scenic drive location possible from your neighborhood - your commute will suck - however it will ease overcrowding and yeah we'll leave you @ Hill ( the 3rd closest MS to your home) - but you'll all stay together -- and then after meeting with people around here, and listening to those at PTSA meetings, and at block parties etc.- the majority would be OK with that I would have voted with them. I wouldn't have worked for it because the site does not serve me, but would have voted with them. If the majority felt like those I know now- I would have voted with them. That's as honest as I can be. WIth all due respect and much sincerity, it's not your opinon that has me and others "bashing" you. It's that the commute and the how we got here that is being repeated over and over. I've said it before and I'll say it again - We get it. And I truly feel bad that any subdivision, school, neighborhood, or persons had to end up that way. But someone had to. It is what it is. The boundaries are done. The NSFOC lawsuit is done. I don't know why this is really being discussed again. Arch asked why words like piperlines and fartherst had to be replaced. Honestly, people were getting tired of hearing/seeing them. You mentioned in an earlier post that (and I'm paraphrasing here) you would try not to overdo the boundary arguments, but you are. I'm really not trying to start an argument here. I'm being honest and giving you some well intended advise. If you want the "bashing" to stop, then please ease up on the outcries of your commute or the boundaries that put MW where it does. You are not the only one in this district that has commutes that stink. The title of the editorial said it all. We need to pull together and move on. Continuing to be fixated or obsessed with the commute times or boundaries isn't moving on. Others are upset about these things and other like varsity sports. The difference is you don't see them posting over and over about the same things day after day after day. At least I don't. Again, my intent is not to start another argument with you today. But this is how I see it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. You bring to the table many years of experience and passion for the district so I'm asking you to channel that energy into something more productive, either for yourself or for the district. The choice is ultimately yours.
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Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 16:03:23 GMT -5
And I've met some as well. My boss lives in the MW attendance area and she says that none of her neighbors have a problem with it and are, indeed, excited about it. Out of curiosity, what age(s) are their kids? She personally has 4 kids ranging from 4th to 8th grade. I'm sure many of her neighbors have kids from all ages. I know some of them are 8th graders as she talks about her son and his friends quite frequently. If you want an itemized list, you'll have to wait until next week when I go back to work.
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