|
Post by gatormom on Jun 5, 2008 13:06:54 GMT -5
I'm curious what makes it ok to constantly paint all of Brookdale with the same brush, yet people get very upset if this is done with WE/TG? I don't think it should be done for any neighborhood. People are individuals and within one neighborhood do not have the exact same views, votes, shift in views, etc. 80% is a pretty big brush. OK since we are going to nit pick this -- 80% of Brookdale voted no- the other 20% who voted Yes voted for any sceanrio. Does that make you feel better ? In most scenario's 80% is a solid indicator of anything - however not here where I am obviously just some idiot who has no idea what he is talking about - Really, dealing with saints is very hard. And how many in BD chose not to vote at all because they couldn't bring themselves to vote either for or against the referendum? How many have since moved in or out of the district? Oh, I do know some of the 20%, they are tired of the big brush strokes. Can I ask you a question, would you have worked so hard for what we have now, voted yes? Eola, Watt's commute. Some of those BD residents did just that.
|
|
|
Post by stmom on Jun 5, 2008 13:09:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure splitting neighborhoods is that big of a problem. Not all communities are made up of named subdivisions, yet they all have school boundaries. Where are the school boundaries for East and West Aurora districts I wonder? Not too many subdivisions, so there must be cases where kids on one side of the street attend a different school than kids on the other side (for ES and MS but not for HS since only one HS per district). I cannot claim that other SDs dont resort to this. Or this may even happen within SD boundaries (203/204 for instance). All I am saying, with something here and now under our control back in Jan 2008, we minimized (best as I can tell) having an "arbitrary line" where one side of the street is this HS, and the very same looking house on other side goes to that HS. (this may somewhat happen in the Peterson ES area...i dont know for sure). But I sure doesnt happen in the Mcc/Steck/Gombert/Owen/Cowl/Watts areas...and i have to say that is a good thing. My impression is that Steck would rather go to HS somewhere in the Quad Cities than split at McCoy.
|
|
|
Post by eb204 on Jun 5, 2008 13:09:38 GMT -5
Having met folks from both extremes, I couldn't agree with you more. Now if we could just get people to realize that not all of us who have supported the district in the bid to build Metea on Eola fit into the same "SB apologist" blanket or whatever one wishes to call us. Lots of blankets were thrown over lots of people and that is just plain wrong. It is time for everyone to put away the anger and move on. I agree the blankets need to be put away, however let's acknowlege the fact that most people either already moved on, or more easily doing so, have something they like in the new deal. For you it is going to Waubonsie which you wanted - the downside is they split your ES....not good, I agree. However you did get the HS and commute from home that works. A few areas got basically everything they wanted - and are the most vocal - local ES - local MS - now local HS - a new HS that many wanted there -- it is very easy to push hard for moving on - the future is all they wanted. Like a lottery win. For other areas with not so good MS commutes - and now really bad HS commutes this process is just not going to fall in place as easily. That doesn't make us all blanket SB-SD haters and bad people. And yes there are truly some who will make the most of anything - my hats off to them, I have said it before, they are obviosuly better people than me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 13:14:12 GMT -5
You are placing a 'benefit' in your own mind onto a neighborhood you don't live in. No, I am not. This achieves one of the expressed boundary criteria...to minimize splits. Its not a nebulous personally-defined "benefit" I am going after...its trying to meet agreed-upon criteria. How many splits were there before and how many will there be now?
|
|
|
Post by warriorpride on Jun 5, 2008 13:14:21 GMT -5
Really, dealing with saints is more difficult than I thought. no name calling - that's a warning however, I am happy to see this discussion actually be on topic
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 13:15:05 GMT -5
I cannot claim that other SDs dont resort to this. Or this may even happen within SD boundaries (203/204 for instance). All I am saying, with something here and now under our control back in Jan 2008, we minimized (best as I can tell) having an "arbitrary line" where one side of the street is this HS, and the very same looking house on other side goes to that HS. (this may somewhat happen in the Peterson ES area...i dont know for sure). But I sure doesnt happen in the Mcc/Steck/Gombert/Owen/Cowl/Watts areas...and i have to say that is a good thing. My impression is that Steck would rather go to HS somewhere in the Quad Cities than split at McCoy. Davenport West has room, I hear ;D Current CEO of McDonald's is a graduate I believe.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 13:16:10 GMT -5
I agree the blankets need to be put away, however let's acknowlege the fact that most people either already moved on, or more easily doing so, have something they like in the new deal. For you it is going to Waubonsie which you wanted - the downside is they split your ES....not good, I agree. However you did get the HS and commute from home that works. A few areas got basically everything they wanted - and are the most vocal - local ES - local MS - now local HS - a new HS that many wanted there -- it is very easy to push hard for moving on - the future is all they wanted. Like a lottery win. For other areas with not so good MS commutes - and now really bad HS commutes this process is just not going to fall in place as easily. That doesn't make us all blanket SB-SD haters and bad people. And yes there are truly some who will make the most of anything - my hats off to them, I have said it before, they are obviosuly better people than me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. I'd take both a ES and MS split over the location of MV and what comes along with that any day of the week.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 13:17:32 GMT -5
80% is a pretty big brush. OK since we are going to nit pick this -- 80% of Brookdale voted no- the other 20% who voted Yes voted for any sceanrio. Does that make you feel better ? In most scenario's 80% is a solid indicator of anything - however not here where I am obviously just some idiot who has no idea what he is talking about - Really, dealing with saints is very hard. And how many in BD chose not to vote at all because they couldn't bring themselves to vote either for or against the referendum? How many have since moved in or out of the district? Oh, I do know some of the 20%, they are tired of the big brush strokes. Can I ask you a question, would you have worked so hard for what we have now, voted yes? Eola, Watt's commute. Some of those BD residents did just that. No one ever claimed they didn't and again a tip of the hat to those who can do that - but sorry I remember when I wasn't alone in being upset by that vote. The answer to your question is no, I would not have worked that hard for this scenario. I have been very clear in the fact I think too many factors about this site/ location/boundaries/commute time and cost are not what they should be. I you recall I was more than happy to stay at WVHS and not have to open a new HS period - that also has not changed, but because it was closest I was willing to do it. Add that to all else I view as negatives for my area. Would I have voted Yes.... I would give you a firm answer if I knew 100% for sure. I do not, I have other issues with the site that would have told me sooner it was not for me personally. Would that have caused me to vote No overall, I would have wanted to know what the rest of my area felt if they had been told that was the site / commute before they voted. That IS being honest. Place me with the 80% of Brookdale people who did vote, who haven't moved, who weren't those who are tired of being typecast etc etc etc. If tha makes me a bad person, quite frankly I don't care any more.
|
|
|
Post by warriorpride on Jun 5, 2008 13:18:01 GMT -5
I agree the blankets need to be put away, however let's acknowlege the fact that most people either already moved on, or more easily doing so, have something they like in the new deal. For you it is going to Waubonsie which you wanted - the downside is they split your ES....not good, I agree. However you did get the HS and commute from home that works. A few areas got basically everything they wanted - and are the most vocal - local ES - local MS - now local HS - a new HS that many wanted there -- it is very easy to push hard for moving on - the future is all they wanted. Like a lottery win. For other areas with not so good MS commutes - and now really bad HS commutes this process is just not going to fall in place as easily. That doesn't make us all blanket SB-SD haters and bad people. And yes there are truly some who will make the most of anything - my hats off to them, I have said it before, they are obviosuly better people than me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. i bet some are happy about a shiney, new HS, too
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 13:20:55 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. i bet some are happy about a shiney, new HS, too So are many who have it in their back yard, and in fact, I would bet dollars to donuts those closer have a higher percentage of their neighborhood who are happy with it than those neighborhoods who have the shiny new HS be the farthest from them. I'll gladly give up the non-splits and the shiny new HS in a heartbeat. Give it to someone closer who will appreciate it more, please.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 13:23:10 GMT -5
I agree the blankets need to be put away, however let's acknowlege the fact that most people either already moved on, or more easily doing so, have something they like in the new deal. For you it is going to Waubonsie which you wanted - the downside is they split your ES....not good, I agree. However you did get the HS and commute from home that works. A few areas got basically everything they wanted - and are the most vocal - local ES - local MS - now local HS - a new HS that many wanted there -- it is very easy to push hard for moving on - the future is all they wanted. Like a lottery win. For other areas with not so good MS commutes - and now really bad HS commutes this process is just not going to fall in place as easily. That doesn't make us all blanket SB-SD haters and bad people. And yes there are truly some who will make the most of anything - my hats off to them, I have said it before, they are obviosuly better people than me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. I don't see any issue with MS splits ( I don't like the one that was proposed for Hill before with 3 and 1 - I agree) - and as far as ES splt - yes I agree that 's not a good thing, however Watts does have 3 sattelites now ( including a new one at 59 and North Aurora just added ) - maybe a fairer question would be to ask those people if they view putting theie K child on a bus for 5+ miles to another area as something they like. It's sort of a split in reverse. The MS split not that big a deal here are Cowlishaw and Watts are contiguous, but Brookdale and Longwood are good distances away from here- with a large stretch of 203 in between. It would mean more to me to be tied to Owen East ( in MS or HS) - who is right next door and attended Watts and Hill with us before. Just IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by JWH on Jun 5, 2008 13:24:15 GMT -5
80% is a pretty big brush. OK since we are going to nit pick this -- 80% of Brookdale voted no- the other 20% who voted Yes voted for any sceanrio. Does that make you feel better ? In most scenario's 80% is a solid indicator of anything - however not here where I am obviously just some idiot who has no idea what he is talking about - Really, dealing with saints is very hard. And how many in BD chose not to vote at all because they couldn't bring themselves to vote either for or against the referendum? How many have since moved in or out of the district? Oh, I do know some of the 20%, they are tired of the big brush strokes. Can I ask you a question, would you have worked so hard for what we have now, voted yes? Eola, Watt's commute. Some of those BD residents did just that. Don't worry, I really don't care how often the "80% Vote No" banner is flashed. In 2006, voter turnout for Brookdale was about ~50%. Many were upset with the Middle School split/island situation, and voted No. So, 80% of those showing up at the poll voted No, but 80% of the neighborhood did not vote No. Will debating two year old voting records help pull the district together?
|
|
|
Post by gatormom on Jun 5, 2008 13:25:42 GMT -5
No one ever claimed they didn't and again a tip of the hat to those who can do that - but sorry I remember when I wasn't alone in being upset by that vote. The answer to your question is no, I would not have worked that hard for this scenario. I have been very clear in the fact I think too many factors about this site/ location/boundaries/commute time and cost are not what they should be. I you recall I was more than happy to stay at WVHS and not have to open a new HS period - that also has not changed, but because it was closest I was willing to do it. Add that to all else I view as negatives for my area. Would I have voted Yes.... I would give you a firm answer if I knew 100% for sure. I do not, I have other issues with the site that would have told me sooner it was not for me personally. Would that have caused me to vote No overall, I would have wanted to know what the rest of my area felt if they had been told that was the site / commute before they voted. That IS being honest. Place me with the 80% of Brookdale people who did vote, who haven't moved, who weren't those who are tired of being typecast etc etc etc. If tha makes me a bad person, quite frankly I don't care any more. Thanks for your honesty and no, that doesn't make you a bad person any more than those who voted no (for whatever reason) for the referendum are bad people. Honestly, if we can't move beyond what happened in 2006, how are we ever going to move past the things that have happened this year.
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Jun 5, 2008 13:26:20 GMT -5
And how many in BD chose not to vote at all because they couldn't bring themselves to vote either for or against the referendum? How many have since moved in or out of the district? Oh, I do know some of the 20%, they are tired of the big brush strokes. Can I ask you a question, would you have worked so hard for what we have now, voted yes? Eola, Watt's commute. Some of those BD residents did just that. Don't worry, I really don't care how often the "80% Vote No" banner is flashed. In 2006, voter turnout for Brookdale was about ~50%. Many were upset with the Middle School split/island situation, and voted No. So, 80% of those showing up at the poll voted No, but 80% of the neighborhood did not vote No. Will debating two year old voting records help pull the district together? Being honest with ourselves will.
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Jun 5, 2008 13:26:31 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Watts end up with both no ES and no MS splits? That seems like something any area would consider a positive. Many areas had one or the other, perhaps both, I don't remember. i bet some are happy about a shiney, new HS, too very very few I talk to...not saying they don't exist. Example- How many Watts people on either board want the new HS ? This is not a scientific sample, but it has to have SOME meaning- and many of us here either have been on the Watts PTA or actively involved with those who are. We don't live on the same block or hang with the same people - so I'm finding it interesting that others know our area better than we do.
|
|