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Post by gatordog on Oct 8, 2008 13:05:48 GMT -5
Ms Eggenberger must get her facts straight. Her argument loses strength when it has statements that are not correct. You cannot make the case to "not move sophs" at all based on WV being too crowded! Per Rudy Keller last night, and other admin info, the plan is to have WV Main at ~3100 next year. What If you dont move sophs? (open MV with freshman only, as Ms. Eggenberger proposes). Then WV would be at ~ 3450. (And by the way, two story NV Blue would be where I think the most extreme capacity problems would be.) For reference: We discussed this in the "WV Green Capacity and Implications" thread www.ip204.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=schooltalk&action=display&thread=1665&page=2There is no logic to her crowding at WV arguments! She says "If we move Class of 2012.... they go into a crowded WV". No! Its the exact opposite... .not moving sophs moves students into a more crowded WV (and NV Blue, too)! To be honest, it makes one think that the "conclusion" was arrived at first (dont move sophs), and the supporting logic (WV will be too crowded) came later, in a not very well thought out manner. Let me say there is merit to the discussion of dont move the Class of 2012. There is. The only arguments to be made are fairness, finish-where-you-start, MV is not ready for upperclassmen. That is it. Here, Ms. Eggenberger does a good job raising these issues. Yes, I think a case could be made to NOT move sophs in that regard. Would I be up in arms if they kept the Class of 2012 at their current school. No. I wouldnt mind it. With that said, I will have a student Class of 2012 at WV that will not bear so much cost for that. (She and her friends would probably like it actually, as you can imagine!) But then, MV will bear the most cost as it loses efficiency, economy-of-scale for staffing and curriculum establishment. And MV bears the cost of delaying its progress by one yr to a full school. And NV would bear most of the crowding burden. Also, this would be counter to previously established procedure (what we did when NV was opened). Its for these reasons that I support the decision to move sophs as being what is best for the entire district. Others can make the case to not move sophs if they please....but if you start talking about WV being too crowded to move sophs, you wont win the argument THAT way.
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Arwen
Master Member
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Post by Arwen on Oct 8, 2008 13:10:53 GMT -5
Great post GD. Well said.
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Post by concerned on Oct 8, 2008 13:10:57 GMT -5
I am sooo tired of the green board trying to portray this as a WV issue. These kids that Janet are talking about have come from a VERY crowded Scullen and will be moved to another crowded WV. I have seen and read Gator's numbers, but I do remember the SB discussing the crowded conditions at WV and remember the Vickers wanting to keep the freshman campus open for one more year to help with the crowding. I for one HAVE never thought it a good idea to move Freshmen out of their HS I don't care if we go to WV or MV. i don't feel this is right for high schoolers. I would feel different about it if it were ES or MS, but not HS. The failure of many to see that these kids have been suffering really makes me angry. This is not about WV. I am here to tell you that Scullen was no cake walk. This year the 7th grade class has to go outside to move from one side of the building to the other to alleviate crowded hallways. This SB has failed for several years to help these kids. They passed a ref that I voted NO to both times, because they did not have the land. Nothing would be done for these kids having to go to school in these conditions. It has been so easy for many to just label them as elitists and it is about WV. Give me a break. Sorry, but this isn't a portrayal, it's a fact. The last 2 years there has been no uproar about the 2012 class and their placement, until the recent changes. I wish there was as way to have every child finish at the school they start at, but I don't see any viable option for that. wow, this is where green board gets it reputation. That is not a FACT that is an opinion. Then maybe it is fact that you are happy to move your child because it is a WV thing for you!!! I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. If this SB didn't spend so much time with BB we could have a school today. Just look at Plainfield.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 13:18:24 GMT -5
Sorry, but this isn't a portrayal, it's a fact. The last 2 years there has been no uproar about the 2012 class and their placement, until the recent changes. I wish there was as way to have every child finish at the school they start at, but I don't see any viable option for that. wow, this is where green board gets it reputation. That is not a FACT that is an opinion. Then maybe it is fact that you are happy to move your child because it is a WV thing for you!!! I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. If this SB didn't spend so much time with BB we could have a school today. Just look at Plainfield. If we had BB, freshman at WV and NV would have moved to be sophmores at MV. Same situation that you're complaining about, just different people moving around to different places. People knew this was the plan 3 years ago with each Ref that was presented. No surprises. A few concerns, yes, but it's how HSs are opened around here. I think there's a lot of different opinions expressed on this board - today is a perfect example.
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Arwen
Master Member
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Post by Arwen on Oct 8, 2008 13:18:53 GMT -5
I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. If this SB didn't spend so much time with BB we could have a school today. Just look at Plainfield. I agree with you that moving HS kids is not the ideal situation. I don't think anyone is celebrating that the class of 2012 is being shuffled. Your logic with BB fails me though. If we had been able to build on BB the day after the referendum passed, we STILL would have moved sophmores to start it up. It just would have been the class of 2010-ish that would have been the unlucky class. The "if only" mentality isn't helpful at this point. Given the student population in our district, what would you suggest as a viable solution that does not make ALL the classes at NV and the freshman class at MV suffer? I don't think the current solution is without its flaws, but I fail to see a better one myself.
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Post by gatormom on Oct 8, 2008 13:21:13 GMT -5
wow, this is where green board gets it reputation. That is not a FACT that is an opinion. Then maybe it is fact that you are happy to move your child because it is a WV thing for you!!! I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. If this SB didn't spend so much time with BB we could have a school today. Just look at Plainfield. So if the school was already built, another sophmore class would have been moved. Metea would have opened last year with freshman and sophmores, the year before or any year for that matter. No matter when Metea opened or opens, a sophmore class will be moved.
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Post by momto4 on Oct 8, 2008 13:21:50 GMT -5
wow, this is where green board gets it reputation. That is not a FACT that is an opinion. Then maybe it is fact that you are happy to move your child because it is a WV thing for you!!! I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. If this SB didn't spend so much time with BB we could have a school today. Just look at Plainfield. Did Plainfield not move any high-schoolers?
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Post by gatordog on Oct 8, 2008 13:23:29 GMT -5
... I think it is terrible to move high schoolers, PERIOD. The should finish where they start. ... Yes, concerned, I agree its not a perfect thing to do. Yes, the Class of 2012 has some burdens. And yes, you can clearly and surely make a case to not move sophomores. But do you agree that NOT moving the sophomores has a cost, as well? Have you thought about the other costs that would have to be carried by other students thoughout the district? Hopefully the green board has a reputation of doing more than saying "I think this....PERIOD." We are trying very hard here to look at some of these issues in depth. EDIT: sorry to hit you with a flurry of responses, concerned! I will say, as others did, if you see ways to not move sophs and make it more workable or better, those would be very valuable thoughts.
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Post by concerned on Oct 8, 2008 13:37:21 GMT -5
I am not ok with posters posting that it is a WV thing and that that is a fact.
I have my reseaons, but voted no both times. Two years ago the numbers were not so high, so maybe the kids that get to start at their HS would get to stay. I don't have a kid in this situation, so this is just my opinion. I wouldn't want this for my kid.
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Post by wvhsparent on Oct 8, 2008 13:48:29 GMT -5
I am sooo tired of the green board trying to portray this as a WV issue. These kids that Janet are talking about have come from a VERY crowded Scullen and will be moved to another crowded WV. I have seen and read Gator's numbers, but I do remember the SB discussing the crowded conditions at WV and remember the Vickers wanting to keep the freshman campus open for one more year to help with the crowding. I for one HAVE never thought it a good idea to move Freshmen out of their HS I don't care if we go to WV or MV. i don't feel this is right for high schoolers. I would feel different about it if it were ES or MS, but not HS. The failure of many to see that these kids have been suffering really makes me angry. This is not about WV. I am here to tell you that Scullen was no cake walk. This year the 7th grade class has to go outside to move from one side of the building to the other to alleviate crowded hallways. This SB has failed for several years to help these kids. They passed a ref that I voted NO to both times, because they did not have the land. Nothing would be done for these kids having to go to school in these conditions. It has been so easy for many to just label them as elitists and it is about WV. Give me a break. First, I am sooo tired of the broad brush painting of the "green board". We do not all share the same opinion. FWIW - I think you're right. I think it's awful that the Freshman have to move next year, but the answer is not that simple. If you don't move the Freshman you'll be opening MV with one class. That's certainly not a good situation either. If you don't move the Freshman, you will have an even more grossly overcrowded NV (worse than WV will be next year). Is that fair to Neuqua's student population? Not really. Although I understand the School Board's decision to make the switch, I do think there was a lack of compassion when the decision was made. It was pretty much "here's the decision, live with it". I talked with a parent very recently who is in this position. Her freshman will have to move to WV next year. This parent has nothing against WV, she just thinks it's very sad that her daughter has to make this transition. I can't disagree with that. The right decision is not black & white. No problem justvote,....your opinion is welcome here too. IIRC the theory that the SB/Admin used to support moving 2012 Freshmen, is partly due to the Gold Campus life. They have gotten the impression that the freshmen in the Golds have felt somewhat detached from the Main campus', giving an easier transition to a new Main campus for all involved (this was true regardless of selected site). However, the school district is sticking to a tried and true plan of moving Frosh and Spohs to their new schools. There was much discussion about this since the 1st plans on the 3rd HS, and this was decided to be the most effective.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 13:55:00 GMT -5
... I have my reseaons, but voted no both times. Two years ago the numbers were not so high, so maybe the kids that get to start at their HS would get to stay. I don't have a kid in this situation, so this is just my opinion. I wouldn't want this for my kid. Lots of people knew that this was the plan, voted Yes, and didn't argue about the transition plan. some quick searching: Woodstock North: opened with sophmores & freshman Plainfield North: ditto Oswego East: ditto NV: ditto
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Post by wvhsparent on Oct 8, 2008 13:55:09 GMT -5
I am not ok with posters posting that it is a WV thing and that that is a fact. I have my reseaons, but voted no both times. Two years ago the numbers were not so high, so maybe the kids that get to start at their HS would get to stay. I don't have a kid in this situation, so this is just my opinion. I wouldn't want this for my kid. You have a right to be offended by posters posting it's a WV thing. That however does not negate their right post it. BTW they(The SD) stated from the outset there would not have been any "grandfathering" even 2 years ago.
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Post by concerned on Oct 8, 2008 13:56:59 GMT -5
Also if there won't be a crowding issue at WV, then why has this subject been brought up at SB meetings? How many kids are leaving WV to MV? If there are only 250 kids moving in and WV is already around 3800 kids. I don't see how WV won't be crowded next year when the freshmen center will be closed. Even if 500 or 600 kids leave that leaves WV at 3100 to 3200 then add the NV kids entering and your at around 3500.
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Post by concerned on Oct 8, 2008 13:59:19 GMT -5
... I have my reseaons, but voted no both times. Two years ago the numbers were not so high, so maybe the kids that get to start at their HS would get to stay. I don't have a kid in this situation, so this is just my opinion. I wouldn't want this for my kid. Lots of people knew that this was the plan, voted Yes, and didn't argue about the transition plan. some quick searching: Woodstock North: opened with sophmores & freshman Plainfield North: ditto Oswego East: ditto NV: ditto Does that make it right. I could care less what the other districts did. These kids already attached to their schools, with sports, activities ect. I don't care who and where I don't think it is right.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 14:04:15 GMT -5
Also if there won't be a crowding issue at WV, then why has this subject been brought up at SB meetings? How many kids are leaving WV to MV? If there are only 250 kids moving in and WV is already around 3800 kids. I don't see how WV won't be crowded next year when the freshmen center will be closed. Even if 500 or 600 kids leave that leaves WV at 3100 to 3200 then add the NV kids entering and your at around 3500. The math that's been stated is that there will be about 3100 total after 600 freshman move to MV, about 250 move to WV from NV and the incoming freshman class is much smaller, based on the new boundaries.
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