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Post by momto4 on Oct 8, 2008 16:11:54 GMT -5
the difference is that NV and WV and Scullen don't get any relief from increasing crowding and the subsequent relief then takes longer (3 more years until the sophmores work their way through to graduation) - on the MV side, you'd be opening an HS (with the financial overhead of running an HS, skeleton as it may be) for < 700 kids - and talk about isolation - no, that's not fair to the incoming MV freshman I could see the crowding at NV and WV not getting relieved, but Scullen, I don't think, has anything to do with it. I'm not saying don't open the 7th MS. All I'm saying is consider leaving current freshman where they are. Plus, if MV had a freshman center, those freshman would be isolated anyway. I don't get the graduation thing. If you are saying that MV will have it's first graduating class 4 years from it's open, so. I don't see that as important enough to make students change HS. Just my opinion. All I'm commenting on is that I think this idea has merit and should be considered. The kids at the freshman campuses of both high schools get to participate in many extra-curricular (and a few curricular) offerings with the students from the main HS buildings. MV students would be at a severe disadvantage opening with only one grade and no kids at all who have had experience with HS clubs. The idea of opening MV with freshmen only is really the most unfair suggestion I have seen of them all.
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we4
Junior
Let's Go Yankees......Let's Go Yankees
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Post by we4 on Oct 8, 2008 16:21:49 GMT -5
If you leave the MV sophmores at WV, then there will be 2 years without varsity sports rather than the current year. People are already upset about the diminished HS experience for the MV students in the first year. Starting with only one class will extend that to half of their HS experience. I think we would all agree on the unfairness and burden that places on the MV freshman (and it would extend the incomplete HS experience to the class of 2014 for their first year as well). I am just an observer in all this. But, as I see it, there are two problems at hand. One is the kids going to MV. Without sophs, freshman they will be alone and 1 or 2 years later without varsity sports. But what about the NV freshman going to WV as sophs. This group has varsity sports in everything, but they have to change schools (I know they go from freshman center to main, this is more a figure of speech). Where do you draw the line on fairness? I can see the argument both ways. There is no easy answer. Do you give the Class of 2012 the option to stay, "grandfathered" if you will? Do you dismiss all ideas because they seem unfair to a certain group? Do you entertain other ideas? I do not know. Everyone has their own idea of fairness.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 16:39:06 GMT -5
the difference is that NV and WV and Scullen don't get any relief from increasing crowding and the subsequent relief then takes longer (3 more years until the sophmores work their way through to graduation) - on the MV side, you'd be opening an HS (with the financial overhead of running an HS, skeleton as it may be) for < 700 kids - and talk about isolation - no, that's not fair to the incoming MV freshman I could see the crowding at NV and WV not getting relieved, but Scullen, I don't think, has anything to do with it. I'm not saying don't open the 7th MS. All I'm saying is consider leaving current freshman where they are. Plus, if MV had a freshman center, those freshman would be isolated anyway. I don't get the graduation thing. If you are saying that MV will have it's first graduating class 4 years from it's open, so. I don't see that as important enough to make students change HS. Just my opinion. All I'm commenting on is that I think this idea has merit and should be considered. Oh, you're saying convert WV gold to an MS and move over all 1000+ freshman to WV Green next year? You'd be at or above 3600 at WV Green - we've already been told how bad that was the year before NV opened. I can't see many WV families supporting this. The point about graduating is that when you keep a concentration of students (i.e. the current WV and NV freshman) at their HS, they are not gone until they graduate. The 2 freshman classes are each over 1000 (is NV around 1200?). Those classes would be a burden/stress on NV and WV until they graduated. The burden/stress goes away in 09 by spreading them across 3 HSs.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 16:45:37 GMT -5
I could see the crowding at NV and WV not getting relieved, but Scullen, I don't think, has anything to do with it. I'm not saying don't open the 7th MS. All I'm saying is consider leaving current freshman where they are. Plus, if MV had a freshman center, those freshman would be isolated anyway. I don't get the graduation thing. If you are saying that MV will have it's first graduating class 4 years from it's open, so. I don't see that as important enough to make students change HS. Just my opinion. All I'm commenting on is that I think this idea has merit and should be considered. The kids at the freshman campuses of both high schools get to participate in many extra-curricular (and a few curricular) offerings with the students from the main HS buildings. MV students would be at a severe disadvantage opening with only one grade and no kids at all who have had experience with HS clubs. The idea of opening MV with freshmen only is really the most unfair suggestion I have seen of them all. Right - since they are only hiring about 50% of the staff next year, I've heard that pretty much every MV teacher will be expected to be a coach/sponsor/assistant of some club/acitivity/sport so that they can quickly establish extra-curriculars to be on par with NV and WV
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Post by majorianthrax on Oct 8, 2008 16:47:49 GMT -5
If you leave the MV sophmores at WV, then there will be 2 years without varsity sports rather than the current year. People are already upset about the diminished HS experience for the MV students in the first year. Starting with only one class will extend that to half of their HS experience. I think we would all agree on the unfairness and burden that places on the MV freshman (and it would extend the incomplete HS experience to the class of 2014 for their first year as well). I am just an observer in all this. But, as I see it, there are two problems at hand. One is the kids going to MV. Without sophs, freshman they will be alone and 1 or 2 years later without varsity sports. But what about the NV freshman going to WV as sophs. This group has varsity sports in everything, but they have to change schools (I know they go from freshman center to main, this is more a figure of speech). Where do you draw the line on fairness? I can see the argument both ways. There is no easy answer. Do you give the Class of 2012 the option to stay, "grandfathered" if you will? Do you dismiss all ideas because they seem unfair to a certain group? Do you entertain other ideas? I do not know. Everyone has their own idea of fairness. Again as I have said before it will be the same as it was when NV opened. I didn't hear much in the way of complaints about unequal athletics then.
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Post by warriorpride on Oct 8, 2008 16:52:21 GMT -5
If you leave the MV sophmores at WV, then there will be 2 years without varsity sports rather than the current year. People are already upset about the diminished HS experience for the MV students in the first year. Starting with only one class will extend that to half of their HS experience. I think we would all agree on the unfairness and burden that places on the MV freshman (and it would extend the incomplete HS experience to the class of 2014 for their first year as well). I am just an observer in all this. But, as I see it, there are two problems at hand. One is the kids going to MV. Without sophs, freshman they will be alone and 1 or 2 years later without varsity sports. But what about the NV freshman going to WV as sophs. This group has varsity sports in everything, but they have to change schools (I know they go from freshman center to main, this is more a figure of speech). Where do you draw the line on fairness? I can see the argument both ways. There is no easy answer. Do you give the Class of 2012 the option to stay, "grandfathered" if you will? Do you dismiss all ideas because they seem unfair to a certain group? Do you entertain other ideas? I do not know. Everyone has their own idea of fairness. And sometimes, what's fair to one it unfair to another. If people were allowed to grandfather in at NV, how many would choose to stay? What if all 250 wanted to stay? Is that "fair" to the remainder of the NV student body & staff? WV is a fully-functioning HS - what is the justication for not moving there? And if the current NV freshmen can opt-out of moving to WV, why shouldn't younger students in those areas have this same opportunity (some will argue that that's "fair")? Sounds like a slippery slope to me.
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we4
Junior
Let's Go Yankees......Let's Go Yankees
Posts: 204
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Post by we4 on Oct 8, 2008 17:01:00 GMT -5
I am just an observer in all this. But, as I see it, there are two problems at hand. One is the kids going to MV. Without sophs, freshman they will be alone and 1 or 2 years later without varsity sports. But what about the NV freshman going to WV as sophs. This group has varsity sports in everything, but they have to change schools (I know they go from freshman center to main, this is more a figure of speech). Where do you draw the line on fairness? I can see the argument both ways. There is no easy answer. Do you give the Class of 2012 the option to stay, "grandfathered" if you will? Do you dismiss all ideas because they seem unfair to a certain group? Do you entertain other ideas? I do not know. Everyone has their own idea of fairness. And sometimes, what's fair to one it unfair to another. If people were allowed to grandfather in at NV, how many would choose to stay? What if all 250 wanted to stay? Is that "fair" to the remainder of the NV student body & staff? WV is a fully-functioning HS - what is the justication for not moving there? And if the current NV freshmen can opt-out of moving to WV, why shouldn't younger students in those areas have this same opportunity (some will argue that that's "fair")? Sounds like a slippery slope to me. I'm saying give the entire Class of 2012 the opt out. Maybe there are some freshman at WV do not want to move (sports, friends, etc). I'm not saying do it, I'm not saying it's fair, it's just a thought. Sometimes great ideas come out of brainstorming. And brainstorming is throwing a bunch of ideas out there, even if they seem odd, weird, crazy, whatever.
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Post by wvhsparent on Oct 8, 2008 17:15:37 GMT -5
And sometimes, what's fair to one it unfair to another. If people were allowed to grandfather in at NV, how many would choose to stay? What if all 250 wanted to stay? Is that "fair" to the remainder of the NV student body & staff? WV is a fully-functioning HS - what is the justication for not moving there? And if the current NV freshmen can opt-out of moving to WV, why shouldn't younger students in those areas have this same opportunity (some will argue that that's "fair")? Sounds like a slippery slope to me. I'm saying give the entire Class of 2012 the opt out. Maybe there are some freshman at WV do not want to move (sports, friends, etc). I'm not saying do it, I'm not saying it's fair, it's just a thought. Sometimes great ideas come out of brainstorming. And brainstorming is throwing a bunch of ideas out there, even if they seem odd, weird, crazy, whatever. and then if they all opt out..........then what?...There's no room at the inn........
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we4
Junior
Let's Go Yankees......Let's Go Yankees
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Post by we4 on Oct 8, 2008 17:24:18 GMT -5
I'm saying give the entire Class of 2012 the opt out. Maybe there are some freshman at WV do not want to move (sports, friends, etc). I'm not saying do it, I'm not saying it's fair, it's just a thought. Sometimes great ideas come out of brainstorming. And brainstorming is throwing a bunch of ideas out there, even if they seem odd, weird, crazy, whatever. and then if they all opt out..........then what?...There's no room at the inn........ Not sure. It's just an idea. I'm just throwing out ideas, trying to take people's concerns into consideration. I don't get paid enough to make the tough choices. Even if I got a 100% raise, I would still make $0.
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Post by wvhsparent on Oct 8, 2008 17:28:38 GMT -5
and then if they all opt out..........then what?...There's no room at the inn........ Not sure. It's just an idea. I'm just throwing out ideas, trying to take people's concerns into consideration. I don't get paid enough to make the tough choices. Even if I got a 100% raise, I would still make $0. Fair enough...thanks for throwing them out there
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Post by eb204 on Oct 8, 2008 17:39:28 GMT -5
We've been told that 2009 will be a tough year. While MVHS will give some relief, there will be some tight spots at WVHS still in '09. The real relief should start to have some effect in 2010/11 when more students are at MVHS. By keeping the class of 2012 where they are only makes it harder in the long run and doesn't accomplish the goal of reducing overcrowding.
Again, it's not an ideal situation, but one we knew about going into this.
Here's an opportunity for the class of 2012, especially those going to MVHS, to form some great and close friendships. I would expect that the atmosphere at MVHS will be more friendly and intimate because of the smaller number of students there that first year. There are some opportunities that some members of this community seem to overlook. As mt4 stated, it's an opportunity for the parents and students to embrace this and see where it takes them. If those old friendships are that well established, they will continue regardless of where they go to school.
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Arwen
Master Member
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Post by Arwen on Oct 8, 2008 19:40:42 GMT -5
Not sure. It's just an idea. I'm just throwing out ideas, trying to take people's concerns into consideration. I don't get paid enough to make the tough choices. Even if I got a 100% raise, I would still make $0. I've actually found this to be an interesting discussion. It sounds so simple to make a decision one way or the other, but when you start taking the details (that don't always occur to me but others have pointed out) into account, it gets complex quickly. There really isn't one shining solution that will make it work for everyone unless we turn Metea into the 204 freshman campus, WV into the sophmore campus and NV into the jr.-sr. campus. That would totally suck, but everyone would feel equal pain!
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Post by chicoryowl on Oct 8, 2008 20:10:33 GMT -5
We've been told that 2009 will be a tough year. While MVHS will give some relief, there will be some tight spots at WVHS still in '09. The real relief should start to have some effect in 2010/11 when more students are at MVHS. By keeping the class of 2012 where they are only makes it harder in the long run and doesn't accomplish the goal of reducing overcrowding. Again, it's not an ideal situation, but one we knew about going into this. Here's an opportunity for the class of 2012, especially those going to MVHS, to form some great and close friendships. I would expect that the atmosphere at MVHS will be more friendly and intimate because of the smaller number of students there that first year. There are some opportunities that some members of this community seem to overlook. As mt4 stated, it's an opportunity for the parents and students to embrace this and see where it takes them. If those old friendships are that well established, they will continue regardless of where they go to school. I don't doubt there are going to be some bumps with opening a new school. However, I think it's going to be a very exciting time for all those involved.
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Post by justvote on Oct 8, 2008 21:05:45 GMT -5
I don't personally think that 153 additional students at the NV main campus is that big of a deal (and my child will be directly affected by this). When I first posted about this a few pages back, I thought that that the overcrowding at NV would be more severe than that. I guess the only major issue I have with not moving the Class of 2012 is opening MV with only Freshman. Weighing that against moving both sets of Freshman classes to new high schools, I'm almost inclined to say leave the Freshman at their current school. The question is "which is the bigger negative?" I don't buy into what some are saying that because the Freshman are physically separated, they're not really "connected" to the school. Even though my daughter has yet to hit high school, she has friends who are Freshman Wildcats and they have alot of pride in their school (none are moving to WV). Some are on various athletic squads and they are just as much Wildcats as the upperclassmen.
On the other side of the coin, I really dislike the idea of opening MV with only Freshman. That does not seem like an economically sound idea, and it probably does a disservice to the MV Freshman. Again I go back to my original thought that the answer is not a simple one.
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Post by gatordog on Oct 8, 2008 21:13:02 GMT -5
... I have my reseaons, but voted no both times. Two years ago the numbers were not so high, so maybe the kids that get to start at their HS would get to stay. I don't have a kid in this situation, so this is just my opinion. I wouldn't want this for my kid. Lots of people knew that this was the plan, voted Yes, and didn't argue about the transition plan. some quick searching: Woodstock North: opened with sophmores & freshman Plainfield North: ditto Oswego East: ditto NV: ditto add to the list a couple more that opened with sophmores and freshman: St Charles North Plainfied South Can anybody point to an example of a HS around here that opened with just freshman?
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